Do LCA's need to be changed

bchataroo · 11-09-2006, 10:53 AM

Question:
Do the LCA's need to be changed if I put the Eibach Prokit on my car? I would plan to come back with them later, but I would like to get the springs and Tokico's on now.

Later

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CrazyAl · 11-09-2006, 12:40 PM

"Need" is a difficult question to answer. Will your car be undriveable if you don't have them? No. Will your car be working properly without them? Also no.

When you lower the car you change the pinion angle in the rear. You need either an adjustable upper control arm or adjustable lower control arms (which I suggest) to fix this. If you don't fix it, you will have driveline vibration, clunking (especially during shifting) and also increased wear on your pinion bearings and driveshaft joints.

To do the job right you should get the LCA's FIRST, or at the same time you do the lowering.

Keep in mind that aftermarket LCAs are more than just a pinion angle fix. They also reduce wheelhop and will improve your handling in general.

bchataroo · 11-09-2006, 01:06 PM

CrazyAl,

Should I get the LCA relocation bracket also if I have the Eibach Prokit?

Thanks

CrazyAl · 11-09-2006, 01:29 PM

I'd say that's your call.

It's not as critical as the LCAs. The relocation brackets don't affect reliability or comfort. However, if you want to get better traction when you hit the gas, then go for it.

If you like to drag race it's one of the best mods you can make, especially with a lowered car.

This is a mod you can always add at a later date, so keep that in mind too.

androdz · 11-09-2006, 08:16 PM

I was told you dont need the relocation bracket all you need is different camber bolts. I got a question if I got the adjustable pah hard, do I need to get adj. LCA's??

CrazyAl · 11-09-2006, 08:31 PM

The panhard, LCA, and LCA relocation brackets are three totally different things.

The adjustable panhard bar is for adjusting the side-to-side position of the rear axle under the car.

When you lower the car, the panhard bar will cause the rear axle to shift to one side. This makes one of your rear wheels "stick out" while the opposite one sits further inside the fenderwell. How much the axle moves depends on how much you lower the car. Also, the rear axle position isn't exactly perfect from the factory. If you get lucky, when you lower the car it will actually "fix" the setup from the factory, in which case you don't need the panhard bar. But 95% of the time that's not the case, and the axle will be shifted to one side. The adjustable panhard bar will let you re-center it.

The adjustable LCAs are for adjusting pinion angle.

..this has already been discussed earlier in the thread.

The LCA relocation brackets are for adjusting Instant Center (Google that term if you don't know what it means).

As I said in my earlier post, you don't HAVE to do this. Changing your instant center back to stock (or making it even more aggressive) is not an issue of durability or reliability. So, you're not going to damage anything if you don't do this. HOWEVER, if you lower your car without doing this then you are decreasing the ability to hook up the rear tires when you hit the gas. Using these brackets will aid in weight transfer to the rear tires when you accelerate.

Camber bolts are something else altogether. As their name suggests they are for adjusting camber, but this is for the FRONT wheels, and is considered part of an alignment. All the stuff I wrote about above is the REAR suspension.

androdz · 11-09-2006, 09:59 PM

If I get adjustable LCA's I dont need to get the relocation brackets right?

CrazyAl · 11-09-2006, 10:41 PM

Wow. I thought that was clear. Apparently not.

The three parts we are talking about (LCAs, LCA brackets, and the Panhard) are TOTALLY SEPERATE ITEMS. Each one does something completely unique.

So if you're asking "if I buy part X, do I still need part Y", answer is YES, if you want the benefit that part Y provides.

In a nutshell: If you are lowering your car, you NEED the following to maintain proper driveability and reliability:

-lowering springs (of course)
-camber bolts & a professional alignment
-Adjustable panhard bar (if you are very lucky you might not need this, but I wouldn't count on that)
-A means of adjusting your pinion angle: either Adjustable LCAs (which I suggest) OR an adjustable UCA.

These four items I just listed are the "must haves" for doing the job right.

Now, you don't NEED the LCA relocation brackets. As I said above, there is nothing mechanically wrong with the car without them. But, they are a good idea and they will give you better traction. I recommend them, but you don't HAVE to have them.

Likewise, if you want, there are other mods you can do at the same time that can improve performance, but they are purely optional. I think if you are interested in doing them, you might as well do it all at the same time, and save some money on the labor. This includes things like new shocks, sway bar, and the panhard bar brace. While the mechanic (or you) has everything apart for installing your lowering springs, it's trivially easy to throw these extra parts on if you want to. However, these things are not "required".

moosestang · 11-09-2006, 10:52 PM

I never changed my panhard bar. I can barely see a difference at the tires and I can't see any difference from under the car when looking at the pinion yoke as it relates to the driveshaft tunnel. Unless you have really wide tires I can't see why you would need to change the panhard bar.

CrazyAl · 11-10-2006, 01:03 AM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: moosestang

I never changed my panhard bar. I can barely see a difference at the tires and I can't see any difference from under the car when looking at the pinion yoke as it relates to the driveshaft tunnel. Unless you have really wide tires I can't see why you would need to change the panhard bar.

I did say in my earlier post that for some lucky people you don't need it. It seems like you are in that category. However, typically the offset is much more obvious. Most people will see a rather obvious offset. In some cases it can cause problems with other suspension parts sitting crooked and rubbing, etc. Also keep in mind that an "acceptable offset" varies from person to person. Some of us can live with the axle being 1/4" off. Some of us will be unhappy with 1/16" of offset.

Also keep in mind the amount of effort involved. Sure you could lower your car, measure it once you're done and see if you need the bar or not. Most of the time you will need one. Now, you have to take the car back to the shop and pay them to duplicate a bunch of labor that you've already paid for once in order to have a fairly inexpensive part installed.

Aftermarket panhard bars are fairly inexpensive and they are also a good performance upgrade in and out of themselves. They are required nearly every time. Installing one while the rear end is already being worked on for springs/LCAs/etc is very quick, therefore the install cost as part of a "combo" is next to zero. If you ask me, it is a wise move to install one while you're doing the lowering.