Which SuperCharger and WHY

[kpaulhus]

Im either going with the Saleen Supershaker, or the Roush TVS. I am going the right route however and the engine will be completely forged before any boost is put on. I DO NOT want to run into bigtime issues.

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[S281 E]

I would recommend Techo but to each their own.

[vasman]

Originally Posted by mygt500

Saleen or Whipple FTW!....run low boost at first say 8 psi and up to more later with dyno tune if you get the need for more power!

Many thanks to all. It seems sallen or whipple cant go wrong. IS there any substantial ease of install on one vs the other?

Any recommendations for DD suspension improvements to handle better with low 400's rwhp?

[Mudflap]

I don't really think that any of the kits that have been on the market a while are bad. Its hard to go wrong in the end, it just depends on your expectations and wallet.

Mine puts out a little over 400rwhp on stock suspension and its fine. I have 275s on the back and there is enough grip most of the time. GL man!

[Riptide]

vasman - lower control arms

These cars have a tendency to wheel hop with the stock parts.

[thedrod]

Originally Posted by Riptide

vasman - lower control arms

These cars have a tendency to wheel hop with the stock parts.

+1 anything you can change back there will help.

Also, Vasman are you lowered? Even if you aren't the control arm relocation brackets can provide you with a more agressive setting than stock. It'll ride rougher but ....still....unless you have lower back problems...who cares!


Another thing....I am getting close to 64k miles I don't know if its the age of the car or what, but it feels like the whole car twists more than usual under WOT.

If you are adding power, I would look into chassis stiffening....maybe some braces? K-Member? Strut Tower? Prothane Motor Mounts. I feel like I need these things and all I have is a intake and exhaust really.

My cousins '07 Dyno'd at 325rwhp last week and he has all these things and his car felt much more solid than mine.

[vasman]

I all ready have the Strut tower brace. (I hope it fits over the saleen) I am considering the CHE K or the engine mounts.

I heard of the risk of cracking your block at the points that CHE K torque mounts bolt, so I am a bit worried about that. This may be push me towards the MM's instead of the torque mounts.

I am thinking of going with the steeda ultralights and tokico D specs.
I guess relocation brakets with BMR or Steeda LCA's
Is panhard bar required or is it a look and see item? Fatter tires are very likely in the future. (as soon as the wife recovers from the shock of the cost of the sc and suspension...)

Prefer to remain Stock drive shaft for now. Do I need an UCA to adjust the angle with the ultralights?

[thedrod]

Originally Posted by vasman

I all ready have the Strut tower brace. (I hope it fits over the saleen) I am considering the CHE K or the engine mounts.

I heard of the risk of cracking your block at the points that CHE K torque mounts bolt, so I am a bit worried about that. This may be push me towards the MM's instead of the torque mounts.

I am thinking of going with the steeda ultralights and tokico D specs.
I guess relocation brakets with BMR or Steeda LCA's
Is panhard bar required or is it a look and see item? Fatter tires are very likely in the future. (as soon as the wife recovers from the shock of the cost of the sc and suspension...)

Prefer to remain Stock drive shaft for now. Do I need an UCA to adjust the angle with the ultralights?

You can get the CHE K brace without the torque limiter part. It is still a difference you can feel and its a lot cheaper if you are worried about the cracking issue.

Some will say a panhard is not needed with a mild drop like that, but aftermarket panhards are beefier than the stock one. It will make things stiffer and ensure your rear wheels are aligned properly in the vehicle.

[Doogie65]

As a good comparison, I have the Edelbrock e-force on my 07 ragtop with only minimal suspension upgrades including Steeda adj panhard, Steeda LCA, CHE LCA brackets, and Roush rear springs. And after recently installing some 285/40 rear tires, it hooks up surprisingly well.

I can't say enough good things about this kit as the install was fairly easy (installed it myself in ~13 hours - first time installing one), very quiet (I can post a link to my dyno run if you want to hear it), clean look under the hood (no CAI required on the base kit), and very competitively priced for an intercooled system.

Oh, and to thedrod's comments about a K-brace (no TQ limiters)... our verts come with one from the factory. And I do believe some of the STB clear this set-up as I know the Bullitt style one was tested for fitment at Edelbrock.

[dkersten]

Wow, so many things to say on this subject.

First, to the comment about the Eaton Gen 6 TVS setups, they are Roots style, not twin screw.. the difference is in the way they force air in.. they are both Positive Displacement superchargers, but not the same. The twin screw has less parasitic loss, so for the amount of boost, you get more power. The roots style also has a much lower potential for the size. The Eaton Gen 6 rotors are twisted, like the twin screw, but all that does is make them more effiicient than before, and quiets them down substantially. The Roush 2300 uses these rotors, as does the Edelbrock E-Force. They are both priced rather high and make about 400 hp to the wheels without going with a "Tuning" kit. There are some kits available (ie Tillman Speed) to get a little more out of them. All roots style superchargers build boost towards the peak RPM - The Edelbrock is rated at 5 psi but will hit about 6.5 psi at 6500 rpm. It has to do with how they pump vs compress the air going in.

Second, Kenne Bell is far from being old technology.. Just because Techco made that behemoth 3 liter reverse rev twin screw, doesn't mean it is more technologically advanced than the Whipple or Kenne Bell, or even the older Eaton superchargers. It's just different, because you can't copy the competitors when developing a new supercharger. The E-Force and the Techco are very efficient designs, but pound for pound, they all perform within a few HP of each other, all other things being equal. The current 2.6L KB supercharger is only a couple years old, but they pioneered superchargers on the modular motor, and nobody has as much experience as they do. (one of the reasons I went that route).

In a twin screw, you have 3 choices, the Kenne Bell, the Whipple, and the Saleen. The KB and Whipple are very similar, with only a few small differences. The saleen is nice, but the status of the company is still in question. Vendors insist that the company is doing better than ever since being bought out, others insist that the company is defunct and selling off old product. I don't know the real answer, but it scared me away from buying their product. The reason I went KB over Whipple is 2 fold - Price is one, KB is about $500 cheaper for the same specs, and the other is intake - KB puts the intake under the front bumper, outside the engine compartment, whipple leaves it in the engine compartment. I know they have a heat shield, but it can very easily pull hot air in being under there.. Hot air coming in = less power going out. It's a minor issue, but helped to sway me.

The Techco is a mixed bag, in my opinion. The engineers that designed it are from Saleen (bailed before the company went under), and the product is a new design. They made it big, so it can do close to 30 psi boost (3 liters!), but being a new company and a new product, it isn't tested. Whipple and Kenne Bell have had their product out for years, and have been putting superchargers on this particular car since 2005. The Techco is at the very top of the supercharger prices, and although it has some added features (8 rib pulley), you can get into a twin turbo for the money, which will give you more power for the boost (10 psi max on these engines). More on turbos later in the post. All in all, the price drove me away from the Techco, as did a youtube clip of a dodge charger with a techco supercharger that sounded like someone behind the camera playing a kazoo. Obnoxious, in my opinion.. Also any clip you can get that shows the sound at idle sounds like the engine is about to fall apart.. If I am going to pay a premium, I want just the right amount of supercharger whine, and a clean idle.. I got that with the Kenne Bell.

In roots, you have the new Roush 2300, and the Edelbrock E-Force. For about the same price as a Kenne Bell, you can get either kit. If I had to choose, I would do the Edelbrock between those two. The kit seems more refined, and easier to install. Either kit will make around 475 hp at the crank (466 for edelbrock), which equates to about 400 at the wheels. For the same price you get a little more boost from Whipple or Kenne Bell, which equates to about 50 mor wheel horsepower. AND the twin screws offer potential up to almost 20 psi boost if you decide to build an engine.

In Centrifugal superchargers, you are basically running a belt driven turbo, so you get the horsepower curve of a turbo with the parasitic power loss of a belt driven supercharger. They have a godawful mechanical sound at idle that some people like, but I think sounds like the power steering pump is about to go. The power builds from about 3k rpm and up, and makes 100% boost at about 6k rpm. If you prefer the way a turbo builds power, then this is a great, far less expensive alternative to turbo. Centris can be had for as little as $3800 for an 8 psi, non-intercooled setup, and under $6k for an intercooled setup. Heat soak is an issue on any forced induction setup, so unless you only drive short distances and live in a cooler climate, I recommend the intercooler.

Turbos are something I have to mention because they give great power, have almost no parasitic power loss, which equates to more power for the boost, and the power and torque curves can be very desireable (personal preference thing though). The downside is cost.. they are at the top end of the cost spectrum, and there are heat and piping issues.. lots of pipes..

Like I said, I prefer the Kenne Bell, and that is what I went with. I put it in in my garage in about 35 hours, which included the time to pull the valve covers and get them powder coated. I also installed plugs at the same time, which took a little time (nervous when I took out the factory plugs). 25-30 hours is about average for the install, less if you are an experienced mechanic with all the necessary tools and stuff at hand, in a shop with a lift.

The Kenne Bell basic intercooled is about $5800, thats a 2.6L twin screw with everything you need except plugs, with a pulley that gives you 8.5 psi boost. They advertise 501 rwhp, but that is with an electric water pump and in perfect conditions. Most people get 440-460 rwhp with this setup. You can get a little more with the stage 2, which includes a new throttle body. If you go this route, go with Brisk plugs, the 14's, one heat range cooler, and gap to .035". Avoid the autolites. I can also give you all kinds of pointers on install if you need.. I just put mine in 2 weeks ago and most of it is fresh in my head.

ANY positive displacement supercharger will suffer from heat soak, even with a good intercooler. On a hot day (90+) after about 5 pulls, expect to see 50+ hp of loss. On a cool day (50 degrees), expect close to 500 hp to the wheels and hang on, you are in for a treat. Centris and Turbos don't see as much loss with heat soak because the intercooler is not in the middle of the engine fighting the engine heat as well as the charge air heat. This is why you see people at the track with ice bags on their superchargers and putting ice in their coolant reservoirs. The cooler the air getting to the cylinders, the more power you make.

Keep in mind you can do about 10 psi boost before you are on borrowed time with a supercharger. Because of parasitic power loss, that 10 psi can be anywhere from 420-550 rwhp, and as far as the engine goes, its all the same. A roots supercharger at 10 psi will not even come close to a turbo at the same level of boost. It's what kind of power the crank is handling that is important.. Anything more than 10 psi at 11.5 AF ratio and 25 degrees timing at WOT (91 octane) and you might as well kiss your engine goodbye, because it's just a matter of time.

Finally, don't expect miracles below 3k rpm.. Even with 8.5 psi of boost at 2k rpm this engine is a dog. Gotta get the revs up to find the power.