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2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

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Old 02-25-2007, 04:28 PM   #221
northy_polk
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

Unfortunately, this was one thing that was beyond me. I had it at the dealership and had them order and install them. So basically I have no idea! As soon as I drove it off the lot after having them installed I knew that the problem was still there.

Now I may be describing this wrong, but what I had installed were STRUT MOUNTS. They have heavier duty bearings iu them: http://www.steeda.com/products/heavy_duty_upper_strut_mounts_street.php. There is a probability they were installed wrong, but I am clueless as to how to know one way or the other. Here's what the Steeda tech told me when I told him the car still made noise after installation of the HD mounts:

"They do eliminate the noise if they are installed properly. We have sold hundreds so far and have not had a report of NVH on any other vehicles. Including the personal cars of company employees who use this part. [/align][/align]Either the part is not installed properly or there are other issues causing yourfront suspensionnoise. We would suggest having an experienced suspension technicianreview the installation of this part vs the instructions and inspect the rest of your suspension. . . .[/align][/align]The next person you have look at the vehicle, have them inspect the needle bearings that are part of the assembly on the back of the spring cup. The instructions mention this, but if the installer is not careful during installthis bearing can shift and pop out of its race. If this has happened during installationit can produce spring seat noise."[/align][/align]So, that's that.[/align]
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Old 02-25-2007, 04:50 PM   #222
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

Northy, just so you know, strut mount and strut bearing are actually the same part although strut mount is the correct term in this case. I have been using strut bearing because that's what most everyone seems to understand/call it.
Some call it a strut bearing, I call it a strut mount ;-).

I thought you had done the work yourself. Why I don't know but it makes sense to me that perhaps the tech was careless. However, if he was and the bearing was out like Steeda says it could be, you'd probably be having steering problems too.

I like the term the steeda guy uses, "spring seat noise". That's a good discription of the cause of the thunking noise.

I don't understand what the steeda tech means by NVHthough. Maybe I should but I don't. Do you know what it means?

From their discription on their HD strut mount it sounds like they are discribing a different problem all together. They call it a popping noise where clearly to the human ear it is not a popping noise at all.

There was a TSB issued back in late 05 I believe regarding a popping noise that occurred while turning the wheel. The solution was an additionalcomposite sleeve over the ends of the springs to keep them from moving in their seats while turning.

So I am notconvincedSteeda even knows what we are talking about. Surely if they heard it they'd be calling it a thunking or clunking noise, not a popping noise becauseit clearly isn't to anyone with ears ;-).

If I were you I'd stop throwing money at the problem via hit or miss repair tactics.I know how frustrating itcan be although I have not used such a tactic since I was a green horn mechanic way backbefore I was even a teen ager.

I do give you high marks for determination though ;-)
Most of us are very determined to see this through and get it resolved one way or the other and if we keep it up, the problem will be solved!
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Old 02-25-2007, 04:58 PM   #223
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

NVH = noise, vibration, harshness. Steeda uses it frequently in describing whether the part will affect the ride of the car one way or the other, ie: will/not increase NVH over competitors end links/swaybars/bushings/etc.

Oh, and the tech was talking about the 2005 TSB noise, NOT our clunk/shimmy/thuddding noise.
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:14 PM   #224
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

If it's not the cross bar could it be the A arms? BMR make a set of A arms with polyurethane bushings. Assuming it's the factory soft bushings this might be the fix. Has anybody tried a set? Lose some weight at the same time. http://bmrfabrication.com/2005MustangSUSPENSION.htm
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:17 PM   #225
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

I believe others have tried the aftermarket a-arms to no avail.
You can search the forum to find out what they did, the resutls etc.
It's notthe fix.
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:24 PM   #226
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

Quote:
ORIGINAL: wolfey2k

I believe others have tried the aftermarket a-arms to no avail.
You can search the forum to find out what they did, the resutls etc.
It's notthe fix.
Scratch that idea then.Pretty expensive fix should it be anyway.
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:33 PM   #227
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

Depending on the dimensions of your disposable income and what your free time bank is, several companies manufacture bushings for the A-Arm that may or may not help. Steeda is one, Prothane is another, and I'm sure there are more out there! Again, probably not the fix, but possibly worth the investment nonetheless.
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Old 02-25-2007, 05:43 PM   #228
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

Hi again, I tried to put on the letter but I'm not that good with computers. Anyway I first explained in detail the noise/problem with my vehicle. I then explained how we shouldn't be having this problem on a brand new vehicle. Then I got into how I found it hard to believe that Ford would allow this to happen on their top vehicle. Then efforts I tried and the dealership to resolve the issue. Then I got into $$$. Knowing that's the job of the Board of Directors is cost and welfare of running the company. And I layed it on thick. Also bringing up the fact that many people on forumshave this problem and with all the car shows and cruise nights out there do they want all of us talking about front end thunking noises. All of this was in detail plus the fact that they could be losing millions in lost sales. I have one friend that was interested but not with the noise. How many other people lost interest. 40 people = million $appx. I assume it could be alot more than that. It was a very well written, as professional as I can. Bottom line was 3 questions, If so? When? If not, please tell me and I'll fix it myself?
I tried my best and this was my next step up the ladder. Hopefully I may get the same info Wolfey2k got or more. Maybe at least get the dealerships on the same playing field. Why should one get answers and others not. Maybe these tech reps aren't privy to the same phone numbers but they might when my letter gets responded too. This was all I could think of to do. I'm not one for sitting on my laurals and letting it slide. As I said before this issue is unacceptable for someone to have on a brand new car. Lets hope for the best results for all of us.
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Old 02-25-2007, 11:33 PM   #229
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

For what it's worth, Car and Driver agrees with us!!!! They actually use the words "thumping" to describe the suspension noise:

"The biggest source of interior racket came from the Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar tires and the suspension — all of it related to what was going on underfoot. On pavement cross-hatched with expansion joints and/or patching, every seam was tangible to the occupants, as both noise and thumping. The suspension bushings seem to be made of granite."

Here's the link to the review. Sadly, it's a review of the Shelby GT500!!!

http://www.caranddriver.com/shortroa...nvertible.html
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:02 AM   #230
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

Sorry but I disagree completely.
Thumping is not the same as Thunking or Clunking.

We've all heard what a thump sounds like. Thump your fist on a table top. A bass drum makes a thump. The sound barrier when broken makes one heck of a thump if your close enough when it happens. Pound your chest with your fists like a gorilla does. That's a thumping noise, okay? Get the difference?

That's the sound they are discribing. They are talking about hearing the wheels go over expansion joints and/or patching, every seam etc. They are talking about hearing the tires go over these.
The sounds they are talking about are entirely different than what we hear in our coupes.

The thunking / clunking sound we hear is metalic.

The convertables do not make a thunking noise. I have tested a few of them myself and I have at least one testimony from the convertable thread on this forum that there are no thunking noises. Also the Shelby GT500 forum has verified their cars do not exhibit any such noise at all.
Again, the convertables and the GT500's all have the cross member that is otherwisemissing on our coupes.
It would be great if somone found an article on the GT and V6 coupes that states they hear thunking noises. Now that would put a lot of pressure on Ford by itself as they pay attention to national / world wide publications.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:06 AM   #231
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

Hi, I know you've driven a couple conv without the noise but you can't count out the few conv & Shelby owners that do have the problem. On the poll I did although not many people responed, last I looked more didn't have the problem than did.
It's one reason it's discourging how some have the problemand others don't. Why? Is it the roads we drive on or area we live? Would all cars have the sound if they drove on the same roads?Did our cars get damaged during shipping? And I say the efforts of all of us trying to figure this out is commenable. But until we get a difinative answer we all should be open to allresponses.
Sure I think it's the upper bearing assembly, Wolfey2k thinks it's the bar, others have there opinion. But I'm not positive, I'm starting tothink the actual design of the lower control arm may be at fault that it resonates suspension noise into the car. But who knows. Until the day comes when someone says "Hey I replaced .......... and it got rid of the noise." Let all be open to thoughts & suggestions.
Ya I know, it's really starting to get to me. Sorry.
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Old 02-26-2007, 10:47 AM   #232
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

A few things:

Anybody made an attempt to get a recording of the noise? And if so, how did you do it? And if not, how WOULD you do it? I was thinking it may be helpful if we posted the noise so we could all say "yeah, that's that dod gammed noise!" or "nope, certainly not the noise I hear in my car!". I'll work on it. The new ipods have little microphones attached that may work. Although IDEALLY I'd like to havea mic outside near different suspension parts. Well, ideally I'd rather have a simple quiet ride!!!

Thanks everybody.
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Old 02-26-2007, 12:53 PM   #233
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

Boy that's a good suggestion. If it was a matter sticking a mic on different parts I.E. Top of strut tower, upper bearing assembly,control arm, control arm mounting area next to bushings, right on the bushings, to the mounting area were conv bar is, etc. I'd use duct tape. My thought long ago was a camera but that being expensive I thought what if it did show the suspension rattle (quick bounce) it still wouldn't say how the noise is being transmitted into the frame/body.
Well your on to something. Good luck in your efforts.
I'm with you too, I'd rather be driving a quite car and thinking about warm weather to put some stripes on or thinking about the first car show/cruise or how about a nice warm weather day with the windows down cruising on a country road. Aaahhhhhh.
Instead of racking our brains with this stupid noise problem. I can't wait to hear what response I get from Ford. Good or Bad. If they put me on with an engineer I might at least find out exactly what is causing this problem.
Again good luck in your recording efforts.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:30 PM   #234
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Hi again, You asked how. I say you'd have to put the mic directly on the item of concern. Just like when you put a long screwdriver on a waterpump, alt.etc. and the handle to your ear trying to isolate a noise. And a clock with someone to note the time of noise. I.E. Go, 10 sec, 15, 20, 35 etc. Now return to the house, rewind and listen against the clock. If nothing move the mic to next position. And so on. As leaving my house it's downhill and noise right off the bat. I know what some are thinking, sorry but I had a real bad back and can't be crawling arond under car. And I don't have a recorder/Ipod or I'd be out doing at least the upper bearing right now. This is a great idea and could isolate the problem. Good luck to all that can try.
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Old 02-26-2007, 01:38 PM   #235
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i've been looking around for some more info [imagine that] and found another article on Edmunds.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=104507

what does it mean that Ford installed "lower spring seat isolators"????? It's near the end of thearticle under Recalls and Problem History.
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Old 02-26-2007, 03:40 PM   #236
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

Jay, Northy and fellow clunking haters,

thanks very much for sharing in the questfor a peaceful and enjoyable thunklessdriving experience ;-).

I had looked into doing just that months ago but never got around to it. The actual device used to record specific noises while directly coupled to a suspension part 'in our case' is called an accelerometer believe it or not.

You can use a microphone but it will pick up every other noisein the surrounding environement.

An accelerometer is not affected by outside noise and does not pick it up at all. It only hears what it's directly connected to so to speak because it's natural resonance limits how much vibration or how high a frequency it can pick up which is extremely low. Say no more than 200 Hz.

They are tuned or tuneable to only pick upeven lower frequencies such as the originationpoint of thethunking noise we are in search of. I'd say a rough guess would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to 50 Hz.

What you would want to use is a single axis acceleromter. Either use a tie wrap or hot glue or even duct tape to secure it to the device in question, set the recorder, then drive the car. Professional models use a powerfulmagnet also.

A professional system, 'I forget the name of it but they are available to mechanics and other technical professions', is fairly expensive but your local dealer or shop may have one on hand and if you request this be done, they may accomodate you but I am sure they will charge you by the hour regardless. My dealer doesn't have one hence my not getting the test done. I called other dealers in my area and they don't have it either.

However you can use a microphone but it won't be nearly as accurate as an accelerometer based device. The chances of isolating the exact origin of the thunking is greatly reduced however.
If you do this test and do manage to isolate the sound, ask yourself this question, "is it the cause or is it the effect?"

I'd also like to clear up a couple ofpoints.
I never said that I don't think it's the strut bearings/mounts.
In fact early on in this thread that is exactly what I think it is and evidentlyso does Ford. At least it's part of the problem.

Secondly I never said that I think that the cross member is where the thunking noise comes from. I have stated clearly that due to the lack of this part, it allows flexing in the subframe and body thereby causing or allowing the other part/s in question to thunk.

Could be the A-arm bushing/s making it. Might not be. I am still convinced that the strut bearing is a piece of junk and should be upgraded in ANY case. Imagine how Ford's board of directors are sweating the decision to take the dive or not. An extremely expensive proposition! But I don't care and I doubt any of you do either. We want our cars to feel that they are 100% what we paid for, then some!

One of the complaints in that article on the Shelby GT500 states that they think the suspension bushings must be made out of granite! ;-) Funny!

Oh, one other point, I haven't only driven a couple of convertables. I recently drove two. One GT and one pony package. That's all the dealer would let me take out at the time. I have driven several other convertables and a couple GT500's as well as a couple CS convertables. NONE of them thunk! 0! The milage on the odometers varied anywhere from 6 miles up to 20K miles.

Keep in mind there are other things that can cause a thunking or a clunking noise. Some owers have had this problem cured because their anti-sway bar links were lose. Others had their thuking problem go away afterswapping out for anaftermarket lowering kit etc. I emphaisize the word mysterious because the noise was there, then it wasn't after the installation of the new parts.
Still others have done this and the thunking noise is still there if not more so than before the work was done.

I'm not going to allow myself to be pulled into hit or miss parts replacement. I can but I won't do it. I have taken what I consider the correct approach and that is working with my Ford dealerto get the problem solved. I feel very fortunate to have the relationship with them that I do. They are a bunch of great guys and gals and they deserve priase for their efforts to resolve this issue.

I'm going to wait until March/April. That's all there is to it. I wish you luck in your quest to figure it out on your own. I would caution you to be patient and wait too. It's only weeks away. Surely we can all live with it a few more weeks.

For sure I am going to be the first customer to bring his car in to my dealer for the upgrade as soon as the TSB comes out! I'm very much looking forward to it! I'm sure you are too ;-).
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:09 PM   #237
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

It will be a race to seewho gets it done first.
I agree Wolfey2k you've done alot in your quest. So have I. I was just afraid people might think there efforts were being wasted. We all are trying in our own way. Like long ago were people just said we have a swaybar nut loose. I knew mine were checked a few times but to call them on it I removed the swaybar with links and the noise was still there.
Recording the noise would be good though. Would it isolate it? Who knows?. Lets assume the mic recorded it in the upper bearing. But on the lower bearings also. Now what? I know it's a pisser. To bad were not friends with a suspension shop or a Nascar shop. Even then could they figure it out?
I just hope an answer is coming soon. My doctor would probably get panicy with my blood pressure.
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:14 PM   #238
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DANG YOU cool headed, patient people!!! You're always right. Or at least much of the time. My hesitation in waiting is based on the notion that corporate entities are not to be trusted. blah blah blah blah.

Oh for a smooth drive through the twisties!!!
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Old 02-26-2007, 04:45 PM   #239
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That got a laugh out of me. Patients isn't in my thought process. Your corporate comment is correct. Reminded me of that old movie Rollerball, were the guy is looking for answers to corporate decisions and can't get them. That's why I went to the corporate world looking for answers. Geez I hope I don't get a confusing answer like the guy in the movie. LOL. If and when there is a fix it will be a dragrace between you, me and wolfey2k as to whogets toFord service desk first.
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:17 PM   #240
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Default RE: 2007 Front Suspension Thunking Noise

Now granted, it costs at least 7 grand, but how beautiful is this setup!?

http://www.griggsracing.com/index.ph...86d385f6495edb.

none of those stupid mounts up through the chasis into the engine compartment to deal with! of course, i guess that 99.9% of cars are set up that way, but still! the griggs stuff is very fine to dream about.
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Old 02-26-2007, 06:17 PM
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