420 HP out of a N/A V8
06-15-2007, 05:51 PM
#11
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 53
RE: 420 HP out of a N/A V8
Simple answer:
You get what you pay for.
Our Mustangs are great cars, but it's not fair to compare our engines to high compression, ultra high tech BMW mills. Just smile, and take consolation in the fact that the BMW costs silly amounts of money more than our humble (and still brutally fast) Mustang.
You get what you pay for.
Our Mustangs are great cars, but it's not fair to compare our engines to high compression, ultra high tech BMW mills. Just smile, and take consolation in the fact that the BMW costs silly amounts of money more than our humble (and still brutally fast) Mustang.
06-15-2007, 06:53 PM
#14
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 2,257
RE: 420 HP out of a N/A V8
new M3=65,000+ 420hp
new 07 Mustang GT=30,000+ or - (got mine for 27500 fully loaded) 300hp
add FI and forged internals 9,000+
=39,000 for 550rwhp+
and mustangs are still really nice in the inside. wham bam thank you mam
new 07 Mustang GT=30,000+ or - (got mine for 27500 fully loaded) 300hp
add FI and forged internals 9,000+
=39,000 for 550rwhp+
and mustangs are still really nice in the inside. wham bam thank you mam
06-15-2007, 07:00 PM
#15
1st Gear Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 132
RE: 420 HP out of a N/A V8
As my moniker states(Bimmertang)...
I exists in both worlds ofBMW/Mustang and I have to echo what many have said and something I said when I first bought my Mustang a month ago.
The main reason I went with the 'Stang is the silly cost of mods.
The price per reward on mods with Mustangs is unreal compared to the BMWs
I spent around 1,000+ to get an extra 18 hp out of a well tuned highly sophisticated 330Ci. (Base 245 Hp, now around 262)
I can spend around $600 on my '07 GT and get 35-40 hp....
It's a little like apples and oranges when you compare some things between BMW and Mustangs....My son and I were driving last night and he mentioned a couple of observations. It's little things like this that add up on the price of a car
My Mustang was $27k..."Dad, Why doesn't Mustang have an intergrated key fob like the BMW, why doesn't it have the auotmatic rain sensors on the wipers, Why don't they have a fabric pillar instead of plastic"
I explained that the car is priced accordingly, You pay for all these little things and more with a BMW, along with the engine, full warranty for 4 years/50k...etc
He and I agree the Mustang is the best "bang for your buck"
It's nice having the choice of a sophisticated "Autobahn cruiser" that can take the twisties like few other cars I've ownedor a "Hell Bent, fire breather" start it up and the sound makes you turn the radio down, not up,in your garage.
I enjoyeach for different reasons andboth are GREAT cars and I feel very fortunate to own them.
My 2 cents
Jon
I exists in both worlds ofBMW/Mustang and I have to echo what many have said and something I said when I first bought my Mustang a month ago.
The main reason I went with the 'Stang is the silly cost of mods.
The price per reward on mods with Mustangs is unreal compared to the BMWs
I spent around 1,000+ to get an extra 18 hp out of a well tuned highly sophisticated 330Ci. (Base 245 Hp, now around 262)
I can spend around $600 on my '07 GT and get 35-40 hp....
It's a little like apples and oranges when you compare some things between BMW and Mustangs....My son and I were driving last night and he mentioned a couple of observations. It's little things like this that add up on the price of a car
My Mustang was $27k..."Dad, Why doesn't Mustang have an intergrated key fob like the BMW, why doesn't it have the auotmatic rain sensors on the wipers, Why don't they have a fabric pillar instead of plastic"
I explained that the car is priced accordingly, You pay for all these little things and more with a BMW, along with the engine, full warranty for 4 years/50k...etc
He and I agree the Mustang is the best "bang for your buck"
It's nice having the choice of a sophisticated "Autobahn cruiser" that can take the twisties like few other cars I've ownedor a "Hell Bent, fire breather" start it up and the sound makes you turn the radio down, not up,in your garage.
I enjoyeach for different reasons andboth are GREAT cars and I feel very fortunate to own them.
My 2 cents
Jon
06-15-2007, 07:08 PM
#16
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: CO
Posts: 3,095
RE: 420 HP out of a N/A V8
short stroke, high revving, high CR engines make big hp numbers with low torque, and get pretty good mileage. They cost alot more to build though, use higher octane gasses, and will not make as much low end power (torque). hp = torque*rpm/5252
hp=285*8300/5252
450hp, so the torque drops off quite a bit before redline, but you get the idea. If the 4.6 could rev to even 7500 while still being efficient, it would likely make 450+hp.
hp=285*8300/5252
450hp, so the torque drops off quite a bit before redline, but you get the idea. If the 4.6 could rev to even 7500 while still being efficient, it would likely make 450+hp.
06-15-2007, 07:46 PM
#18
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location:
Posts: 467
RE: 420 HP out of a N/A V8
Both BMW and AUDI are using a new technology where they directly inject the fuel into the cylinder. It allows for higher compression rates. I don't fully understand it. I was at an auto show about 2 onths ago and thought the same thing. Of course there are also those other expensive stuff in the engine to make it able to even handle the HP.
06-16-2007, 02:22 AM
#19
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 346
RE: 420 HP out of a N/A V8
Why do they push so much the same reason peopel like clarkson etc take the **** out of american engines. You get sod all power from them. Its all torque. Thats the main difference.
Its like my little 1.6 litre french hatch makes 130hp. And thats only got a tune. Its basically a different way of tuning engines in Europe we tune for power rather than torque hence hence why are cars are quick 0-60 0- 100 etc but in gear acceleration isn't great. But we also have manual gearboxes in 95% of cars on the road so they can be driven hard and makes more sense to have the power as people are taught to drive in it all the time.
Mod wise though BMW's arent that much more to tune you can have an 800hp twin cupercharged M3 for not very much theres also turbo M3's with over 1000hp that can be built for similar price to a blown stang. It just requires you look around and import parts from europe.
Its like my little 1.6 litre french hatch makes 130hp. And thats only got a tune. Its basically a different way of tuning engines in Europe we tune for power rather than torque hence hence why are cars are quick 0-60 0- 100 etc but in gear acceleration isn't great. But we also have manual gearboxes in 95% of cars on the road so they can be driven hard and makes more sense to have the power as people are taught to drive in it all the time.
Mod wise though BMW's arent that much more to tune you can have an 800hp twin cupercharged M3 for not very much theres also turbo M3's with over 1000hp that can be built for similar price to a blown stang. It just requires you look around and import parts from europe.
06-16-2007, 02:27 AM
#20
Multi-Tasking Moderator!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Detroit Rock City!
Posts: 15,618
RE: 420 HP out of a N/A V8
1+ makes sense to me
ORIGINAL: bascho
Let's see........if Ford could get someone to pay $60K for a 4.0L V6 Mustang (like BMW gets for the M3) then they could afford to throw $15-20K at the engine alone to make sure it puts out 420hp.
We have more horsepower in our GT's than any other car at that price point. Ford could easily crank out more power from the 4.6.......but at what cost? The Mustang has to remain affordable.....that's the formula that works.
Don't feel bad about your 4.0L six or your 4.6L eight not having the output of a 4.0L BMW.......if you want to spend the kind of money that BWM spends then you can easily build a 400-450hp n/a engine. But I'm pretty sure most of us would rather just throw $5-6K at FI of some sort and pocket the other $10K.
Let's see........if Ford could get someone to pay $60K for a 4.0L V6 Mustang (like BMW gets for the M3) then they could afford to throw $15-20K at the engine alone to make sure it puts out 420hp.
We have more horsepower in our GT's than any other car at that price point. Ford could easily crank out more power from the 4.6.......but at what cost? The Mustang has to remain affordable.....that's the formula that works.
Don't feel bad about your 4.0L six or your 4.6L eight not having the output of a 4.0L BMW.......if you want to spend the kind of money that BWM spends then you can easily build a 400-450hp n/a engine. But I'm pretty sure most of us would rather just throw $5-6K at FI of some sort and pocket the other $10K.