Horrid Understeer
11-15-2007, 07:19 AM
#1
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Join Date: Sep 2005
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Horrid Understeer
I have noticed under moderate to agressive driving, these cars are DETERMINED to understeer. I often find my front end losing grip moreso than the back. I was always under the impression mustangs had a loose back end... but i guess i was wrong. Why did ford make them with such relentless understeer and is there any way to fix it?
11-15-2007, 07:36 AM
#3
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 116
RE: Horrid Understeer
Define "moderately aggressive driving" as some of us may have different ideas on what that means. How fast were you going?
I think Ford designs the stock Stangs with relatively cruddy suspension mainly because it is cheaper. They want to sell the car and they know that the cheaper it is, the more it will sell. There are some Stangs that come equipped with the Ford Racing packs and they cost a bit more. But I would personally rather have the car come with stock suspension so that I can pick and choose which suspension parts I want to add to the car instead of having Ford tell me what I want by giving it the FRPP and making it cost more.
Also, from what I have been told, suspension upgrades to these new Stangcan make them handle like true race cars.
I think Ford designs the stock Stangs with relatively cruddy suspension mainly because it is cheaper. They want to sell the car and they know that the cheaper it is, the more it will sell. There are some Stangs that come equipped with the Ford Racing packs and they cost a bit more. But I would personally rather have the car come with stock suspension so that I can pick and choose which suspension parts I want to add to the car instead of having Ford tell me what I want by giving it the FRPP and making it cost more.
Also, from what I have been told, suspension upgrades to these new Stangcan make them handle like true race cars.
11-15-2007, 07:38 AM
#4
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sunny Side of Louisville
Posts: 488
RE: Horrid Understeer
Well, I don't think Ford ever intended the Mustang to be a touring car, but more of an off-the-line, $h!t and get, muscle car. And they probably figured with that much power to the rear end, understeer would be less dangerous than oversteer.
There are some mods you can do to fix that, but I don't have a lot of knowledge in that area. A lot of others on this forum do, though.
There are some mods you can do to fix that, but I don't have a lot of knowledge in that area. A lot of others on this forum do, though.
11-15-2007, 07:43 AM
#5
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Decatur AL USA
Posts: 2,176
RE: Horrid Understeer
Non-Pony Pkg 4.0 has no rear anti-roll bar.
You could try just the GT Conv/Pony rear anti-roll bar.
You may have to add brackets and/or drill. I have not looked at a base car.
I cant say whether this will make it oversteer with the stock front bar.
An even better option might be front and rear takeoffs from a GT Coupe. This will still understeer but not as badly as a base 4.0.
You could get new takeoffs (from Saleen, Roush, Steeda etc.) or used parts from some one who had upgraded bars and links.
You could try just the GT Conv/Pony rear anti-roll bar.
You may have to add brackets and/or drill. I have not looked at a base car.
I cant say whether this will make it oversteer with the stock front bar.
An even better option might be front and rear takeoffs from a GT Coupe. This will still understeer but not as badly as a base 4.0.
You could get new takeoffs (from Saleen, Roush, Steeda etc.) or used parts from some one who had upgraded bars and links.
11-15-2007, 07:48 AM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Sunny Side of Louisville
Posts: 488
RE: Horrid Understeer
ORIGINAL: Gene K
Non-Pony Pkg 4.0 has no rear anti-roll bar.
You could try just the GT Conv/Pony rear anti-roll bar.
You may have to add brackets and/or drill. I have not looked at a base car.
I cant say whether this will make it oversteer with the stock front bar.
An even better option might be front and rear takeoffs from a GT Coupe. This will still understeer but not as badly as a base 4.0.
You could get new takeoffs (from Saleen, Roush, Steeda etc.) or used parts from some one who had upgraded bars and links.
Non-Pony Pkg 4.0 has no rear anti-roll bar.
You could try just the GT Conv/Pony rear anti-roll bar.
You may have to add brackets and/or drill. I have not looked at a base car.
I cant say whether this will make it oversteer with the stock front bar.
An even better option might be front and rear takeoffs from a GT Coupe. This will still understeer but not as badly as a base 4.0.
You could get new takeoffs (from Saleen, Roush, Steeda etc.) or used parts from some one who had upgraded bars and links.
11-15-2007, 07:52 AM
#7
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Harrisburg PA
Posts: 1,778
RE: Horrid Understeer
I'd say its pretty well documented that Ford intentionally dialed in some understeer for safety reasons. For the normal, everyday, non-performance oriented owner (most Mustang owners) understeer is much safer and easier to control. I have read this in numerous Mustang reviews (Motor Trend, Road and Track, etc).
How do you correct it? Well, other than gassing it thru a corner its not cheap. You can read up on how to make the car a world class handler in the following thread:https://mustangforums.com/m_934501/mpage_13/key_/tm.htm Its a very long thread, this link is to the end of it, where the latest and best info is.
How do you correct it? Well, other than gassing it thru a corner its not cheap. You can read up on how to make the car a world class handler in the following thread:https://mustangforums.com/m_934501/mpage_13/key_/tm.htm Its a very long thread, this link is to the end of it, where the latest and best info is.
11-15-2007, 08:53 AM
#8
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: NY
Posts: 318
RE: Horrid Understeer
big antisway bars and really good summer performance "sticky" tires is best for a DD street car. step up to stiffer springs and/orstruts if you can tolerate the loss of ride quality. you can get a complete roush set up for $1500 and thats the best setup ive seen but it leans more towardsrace car than street car. it depends on the quality of the roads you have to drive on also. NY roads suck so for me i get better corning ability with a "softer" suspension so you dont bounce over bumps and lose traction, hense big sway bars and good rubber. you can also dial in some negative camber and toe to help but you have to rotate your tires often to minimize unever wear. search the net for autocross stuff youll find info on how to set up for maximum performance. remember what works on the race track isnt always best for the street. you have to consider road conditions, its a big factor in the tuning equation.
11-15-2007, 10:56 AM
#9
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Decatur AL USA
Posts: 2,176
RE: Horrid Understeer
ORIGINAL: FenderParrothead
Having never driven the V6 model myself, I'm curious Gene, are you saying that the 4.0s have worse understeer? Is that just because the GT has more power to put to the rear tires, or are there other differences?
Having never driven the V6 model myself, I'm curious Gene, are you saying that the 4.0s have worse understeer? Is that just because the GT has more power to put to the rear tires, or are there other differences?
Base V6 Coupe
F. Springs 148.5 lb/in (Effective)
F. Swaybar 28.6 mm
R. Swaybar NONE
Pony V6Coupe
F. Springs 148.5 lb/in (Effective)
F. Swaybar 34 mm (Same as GT)
R. Swaybar 18 mm (Same as GT Conv)
GT Coupe
F. Springs 170.7 lb/in (Effective)
F. Swaybar 34 mm
R. Swaybar 20 mm
As I stated earlier I think the most pressing reason for the excessive understeer in a Base V6 is the total lack of a rear swaybar.
I know its counterintuitive but the end with the stiffest suspension usually slides first.
I think Ford chose the smaller 18 mm rear bar from the GT Convfor the Pony to balance the softer front spring rates of the V6.
The4.0 Engine is only 16 lb lighter than the 4.6L (405 lb dressed vs 421 lb dressed)so I dont think engine weeight was a deciding factor.
From least to most understeer would be,
F. 28.6 mm /R. 20 mm
F. 28.6 mm /R. 18 mm
F. 34 mm / R. 20 mm
F. 34 mm / R. 18 mm
F. 28.6 mm / R. NONE
F. 34 mm / R.NONE
The Factory GT coupe has the least understeer followed be the Pony. I suggested trying the 18mm rear bar from a GT Conv or Pony as I suspect it would make the car close to neutral (or if its to much at least it would have less oversteer than the 20 mm rear bar) as it could be done at minimum expense using takeoff parts. The car will still have more body roll than a GT Coupe though due to softer front springs and swaybar. If he wanted less body roll he could use the 34mm F and 20 mmm R Bar combo. Of course if he is really serious there is always the aftermarket.
11-15-2007, 05:20 PM
#10
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location:
Posts: 2,486
RE: Horrid Understeer
ORIGINAL: tube
Because women driving V6 mustangs don't know how to control oversteer.
Try giving it a bit of gas, that will correct the understeer.
Because women driving V6 mustangs don't know how to control oversteer.
Try giving it a bit of gas, that will correct the understeer.
ORIGINAL: BartSimpson
Define "moderately aggressive driving" as some of us may have different ideas on what that means. How fast were you going?
I think Ford designs the stock Stangs with relatively cruddy suspension mainly because it is cheaper. They want to sell the car and they know that the cheaper it is, the more it will sell. There are some Stangs that come equipped with the Ford Racing packs and they cost a bit more. But I would personally rather have the car come with stock suspension so that I can pick and choose which suspension parts I want to add to the car instead of having Ford tell me what I want by giving it the FRPP and making it cost more.
Also, from what I have been told, suspension upgrades to these new Stang can make them handle like true race cars.
Define "moderately aggressive driving" as some of us may have different ideas on what that means. How fast were you going?
I think Ford designs the stock Stangs with relatively cruddy suspension mainly because it is cheaper. They want to sell the car and they know that the cheaper it is, the more it will sell. There are some Stangs that come equipped with the Ford Racing packs and they cost a bit more. But I would personally rather have the car come with stock suspension so that I can pick and choose which suspension parts I want to add to the car instead of having Ford tell me what I want by giving it the FRPP and making it cost more.
Also, from what I have been told, suspension upgrades to these new Stang can make them handle like true race cars.
Yeah ford does that, and because its "safer" and easier to defend understeer in a courtroom than oversteer in the case of a life-taking accident.
ORIGINAL: Gene K
Non-Pony Pkg 4.0 has no rear anti-roll bar.
You could try just the GT Conv/Pony rear anti-roll bar.
You may have to add brackets and/or drill. I have not looked at a base car.
I cant say whether this will make it oversteer with the stock front bar.
An even better option might be front and rear takeoffs from a GT Coupe. This will still understeer but not as badly as a base 4.0.
You could get new takeoffs (from Saleen, Roush, Steeda etc.) or used parts from some one who had upgraded bars and links.
Non-Pony Pkg 4.0 has no rear anti-roll bar.
You could try just the GT Conv/Pony rear anti-roll bar.
You may have to add brackets and/or drill. I have not looked at a base car.
I cant say whether this will make it oversteer with the stock front bar.
An even better option might be front and rear takeoffs from a GT Coupe. This will still understeer but not as badly as a base 4.0.
You could get new takeoffs (from Saleen, Roush, Steeda etc.) or used parts from some one who had upgraded bars and links.
ORIGINAL: FenderParrothead
Having never driven the V6 model myself, I'm curious Gene, are you saying that the 4.0s have worse understeer? Is that just because the GT has more power to put to the rear tires, or are there other differences?
ORIGINAL: Gene K
Non-Pony Pkg 4.0 has no rear anti-roll bar.
You could try just the GT Conv/Pony rear anti-roll bar.
You may have to add brackets and/or drill. I have not looked at a base car.
I cant say whether this will make it oversteer with the stock front bar.
An even better option might be front and rear takeoffs from a GT Coupe. This will still understeer but not as badly as a base 4.0.
You could get new takeoffs (from Saleen, Roush, Steeda etc.) or used parts from some one who had upgraded bars and links.
Non-Pony Pkg 4.0 has no rear anti-roll bar.
You could try just the GT Conv/Pony rear anti-roll bar.
You may have to add brackets and/or drill. I have not looked at a base car.
I cant say whether this will make it oversteer with the stock front bar.
An even better option might be front and rear takeoffs from a GT Coupe. This will still understeer but not as badly as a base 4.0.
You could get new takeoffs (from Saleen, Roush, Steeda etc.) or used parts from some one who had upgraded bars and links.
ORIGINAL: oi8achevy
big antisway bars and really good summer performance "sticky" tires is best for a DD street car. step up to stiffer springs and/or struts if you can tolerate the loss of ride quality. you can get a complete roush set up for $1500 and thats the best setup ive seen but it leans more towards race car than street car. it depends on the quality of the roads you have to drive on also. NY roads suck so for me i get better corning ability with a "softer" suspension so you dont bounce over bumps and lose traction, hense big sway bars and good rubber. you can also dial in some negative camber and toe to help but you have to rotate your tires often to minimize unever wear. search the net for autocross stuff youll find info on how to set up for maximum performance. remember what works on the race track isnt always best for the street. you have to consider road conditions, its a big factor in the tuning equation.
big antisway bars and really good summer performance "sticky" tires is best for a DD street car. step up to stiffer springs and/or struts if you can tolerate the loss of ride quality. you can get a complete roush set up for $1500 and thats the best setup ive seen but it leans more towards race car than street car. it depends on the quality of the roads you have to drive on also. NY roads suck so for me i get better corning ability with a "softer" suspension so you dont bounce over bumps and lose traction, hense big sway bars and good rubber. you can also dial in some negative camber and toe to help but you have to rotate your tires often to minimize unever wear. search the net for autocross stuff youll find info on how to set up for maximum performance. remember what works on the race track isnt always best for the street. you have to consider road conditions, its a big factor in the tuning equation.