Lets talk about Watts-link suspensions
12-06-2008, 07:19 PM
#2
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IMO they are for road courses and I like the way the suspension sits now as it is better IMO for straight lines (like the 1/4 mile). They are expensive and though proven I would just rather upgrade the current suspension components......any other thoughts guys?
12-06-2008, 07:57 PM
#3
well road course is what im mainly aiming for 
i know they are expensive, but thats not so much a concern for me as i am single/no kids (that i know of
)
does it affect wheel hop at all, or just turning?
i know they are expensive, but thats not so much a concern for me as i am single/no kids (that i know of
)does it affect wheel hop at all, or just turning?
12-06-2008, 11:55 PM
#4
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I know the turning is greatly improved but the jury is out on the wheel hop... I am sure it would be improved but I am not sure...
EDIT -
quote from another forum -
Response -
So maybe something other than the saleen watts link as there are other companies that have it "perfected" the design.
Dammit Joo- Now you have me thinking esp after reading and some research on this suspension and I just told Jack -wingman75 that it was a bit over board for the occasional use it would receive...... I too don't have any kids "that I know of" so maybe some more OT at work to justify the the cost. I have to do more research though and would love to drive in a S197 that has this setup.
Food for thought though......and it seems that if it helps with the "hop" described above it would help for hop while spinning the tires....with TC off I have no hop while spinning the tires but I do get the "hop" described above and on bumps while accelerating onto the freeway where the on ramp has a good gradual but considerable turn...
EDIT -
quote from another forum -
This is my problem, it is a garage queen ,street driven only. I want it to hug the road better than it does. I have purchased eibach pro and Biltein shocks. I hate however the sometimes sideways dance occuring over railroad crossings and or ruff spots in the road. This setup seems to improve these 2 aspects.
To the original poster: I recently purchased a Fays2Suspension watts linkage and, in the process, spoke with Jim Fay (the owner) who was of course aware of the recall on the Saleen linkage on the PJ Mustang edition and advised that it was in fact due (at least in part) to the axle clamp bolts.
Although I don't have enough miles yet on my Fays2 to offer anything more than cursory feedback, the performance difference is, in my opinion, demonstrably superior to either (1) the OEM setup I had originally or (2) the "modified" setup I ran before purchasing/installing the Fays2 (which included - but was not limited to - tubular LCAs, tubular panhard bar and panhard bar brace, and tubular upper third link, all being double adjustable with spherical bearing ends) insofar as the lateral movement of the rear has been virtually eliminated (even under relatively "agressive cornering") and the "hop"-like action you described is now almost imperceptible under even relatively "rough" roadway conditions.
Although my experience also indicates that a new "flavor" of panhard bar and brace will in fact make a difference in the performance of the S197 and at a considerably less cost than a watts linkage (NB- Jim's product isnt cheap at $615), my experience also indicates that a watts linkage is far more likely to give you the additional "performance" you described that you're looking for.
One last comment regarding the various manufacturers of watts linkages available for the S197: although I did not consider a Saleen linkage (in part because of the recall and in part because of the issues Jim Fay referred to), I did consider purchasing a Lakewood linkage.
However, if you go to Lakewood's site and look at their product and the materials that go into their linkage vs. what goes into a Fays2 linkage I believe you will see that there is no comparison between the two, i.e., the Fays2 is superior with respect to virtually any of the materials you want to compare viz-a-viz the Lakewood. When you further compare the designs of the two linkages, particularly the axle attachments, I believe that the choice between these two products will be self-evident.
(A word of clarification: I do not now distribute, nor have I ever distributed Fays2 linkages; I also have received no reimbursement or any other any form of compensation whatsoever from either Jim Fay or Fays2Suspension in connection with these or any other comments I have made elsewhere on this forum concerning watts linkages.)
Although I don't have enough miles yet on my Fays2 to offer anything more than cursory feedback, the performance difference is, in my opinion, demonstrably superior to either (1) the OEM setup I had originally or (2) the "modified" setup I ran before purchasing/installing the Fays2 (which included - but was not limited to - tubular LCAs, tubular panhard bar and panhard bar brace, and tubular upper third link, all being double adjustable with spherical bearing ends) insofar as the lateral movement of the rear has been virtually eliminated (even under relatively "agressive cornering") and the "hop"-like action you described is now almost imperceptible under even relatively "rough" roadway conditions.
Although my experience also indicates that a new "flavor" of panhard bar and brace will in fact make a difference in the performance of the S197 and at a considerably less cost than a watts linkage (NB- Jim's product isnt cheap at $615), my experience also indicates that a watts linkage is far more likely to give you the additional "performance" you described that you're looking for.
One last comment regarding the various manufacturers of watts linkages available for the S197: although I did not consider a Saleen linkage (in part because of the recall and in part because of the issues Jim Fay referred to), I did consider purchasing a Lakewood linkage.
However, if you go to Lakewood's site and look at their product and the materials that go into their linkage vs. what goes into a Fays2 linkage I believe you will see that there is no comparison between the two, i.e., the Fays2 is superior with respect to virtually any of the materials you want to compare viz-a-viz the Lakewood. When you further compare the designs of the two linkages, particularly the axle attachments, I believe that the choice between these two products will be self-evident.
(A word of clarification: I do not now distribute, nor have I ever distributed Fays2 linkages; I also have received no reimbursement or any other any form of compensation whatsoever from either Jim Fay or Fays2Suspension in connection with these or any other comments I have made elsewhere on this forum concerning watts linkages.)
Dammit Joo- Now you have me thinking esp after reading and some research on this suspension and I just told Jack -wingman75 that it was a bit over board for the occasional use it would receive...... I too don't have any kids "that I know of" so maybe some more OT at work to justify the the cost. I have to do more research though and would love to drive in a S197 that has this setup.
Food for thought though......and it seems that if it helps with the "hop" described above it would help for hop while spinning the tires....with TC off I have no hop while spinning the tires but I do get the "hop" described above and on bumps while accelerating onto the freeway where the on ramp has a good gradual but considerable turn...
Last edited by mygt500; 12-07-2008 at 12:12 AM.
12-07-2008, 07:13 AM
#5
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ohio
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If you are lowering/stiffening your car to the point where your suspension travel will be minimal and planning to drive on relatively smooth tracks - a WL is unnecessary. The big difference between the WL and PHB is the deflection that happens with the PHB as it moves through an arc as the rear suspension goes up and down. Less up and down, less deflection, less difference.
If, like most of us, you drive a lot in the real world and occasionally go to the track a WL will help your rear suspension perform better in both places. I had a PHB and switched to the WL. I like it. If I bought another Mustang I would buy another set of Konis, LCAs, and WL as my first suspension purchases.
Last edited by 2007GT/CS; 12-07-2008 at 07:15 AM. Reason: typos
12-07-2008, 10:14 AM
#6
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Look up all posts by Sam Strano on the subject. An expert talking about the Watts link. He has me convinced - I have too much invested already to change now but if I was starting from stock suspension I'd absolutely go for the Watts link. Note that I do most of my driving on race tracks.
12-07-2008, 10:18 AM
#7
when I say "wheel hop", I mean the hop from tire spinning
Side hop is a much bigger priority for me than wheel hop, which is why I am considering a WL.
That sucks to hear about the saleen though, but maybe that's been corrected
I should also mention I don't plan on lowering, as I like being able to park easily and not worry about driveways
Side hop is a much bigger priority for me than wheel hop, which is why I am considering a WL.
That sucks to hear about the saleen though, but maybe that's been corrected
I should also mention I don't plan on lowering, as I like being able to park easily and not worry about driveways
Last edited by Joolander; 12-07-2008 at 10:21 AM.
12-07-2008, 10:58 AM
#8
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Location: Montaner
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Thankyou to whoever mentioned Sam Strano. I am engaged in a friendly debate with some Euro BMW/Audi fans who tell me that US Domestic cars were created without steering wheels and that Henry Ford ran into a corner once. And exploded.
It was nice to have some youtube vids to post back showing that a Mustang can take corners.
It was nice to have some youtube vids to post back showing that a Mustang can take corners.
12-07-2008, 03:25 PM
#9
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I would imagine the WL would also help in straight line acceleration. It should reduce the tendency of the rear end to step out to the side when upshifting and breaking traction. The straight up/down motion of the WL would not put the side load on the rear during squating like the panhard bar does.
Last edited by Racefiend; 12-07-2008 at 03:28 PM.
12-08-2008, 06:45 AM
#10
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 246
The saleen/pj watts link is also designed for a specific ride height, specifically the Saleen springs. The Fays is more adjustable and should work well even with stock suspension.
The whole concern about the rear most people have is the side hop solid axle cars are prone to. I experience the side hop every single day when I drive to work. There is a piece of asphalt I turn on that looks like someone heated a bag with a torch. Its simply curled. I usually take the turn faster than most would and it hops and skips along the bumps.
As for the lakewood unit, there is a pic of someone who broke the unit. It simply looks like you get what you pay for kinda deal.
Come jan I will be placing an order for a WL.
The whole concern about the rear most people have is the side hop solid axle cars are prone to. I experience the side hop every single day when I drive to work. There is a piece of asphalt I turn on that looks like someone heated a bag with a torch. Its simply curled. I usually take the turn faster than most would and it hops and skips along the bumps.
As for the lakewood unit, there is a pic of someone who broke the unit. It simply looks like you get what you pay for kinda deal.
Come jan I will be placing an order for a WL.