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Replacing Sound System

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Old 04-15-2009, 04:12 PM   #1
Xeremeh
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Default Replacing Sound System

Hey guys,

I've finally gone out and done a little ground work. Since I have the Shaker 500, my vehicle's abit twitch when it comes to sound. I replaced my head unit yesterday with a Pioneer AVIC-F700BT. Next is to replace the doors and rears. My buddy is trying to convince me to go with components, Alpine Type-S specifically, in the front, and just some coax Type-S's for rear fill. I'm not really interested in installing a 4-way at this time, so he said that Type-R's aren't a good idea unless I go for a 4-way amp. He also said that the best thing to do would be to bypass the door subs (because all they're really doing right now is rattling the crap out for my doors), and install an old JL I have sitting around in a trunk box. Anyone have any ideas as to whether these would be good suggestions? I found the PDF to remove the door panels, but how do I do a bypass on the subs and add components? Also, what size does best for our cars in front and back? Thanks!
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Old 04-15-2009, 04:15 PM   #2
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:27 PM   #3
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Look into a set of components for the front. Some brands you could look into are Image Dynamics, CDT, Hertz, Alpine just to name a few. There's no need for new rear speakers. To get the most out of your components you should look into a amp to run them.
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Old 04-15-2009, 05:42 PM   #4
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Thanks for the link to the wiring diagram. I'm really horrible at figuring out what to do with that sort of thing though. Do I just not plug the amplifier pre-outs going to the deck in or what? How horrible will it sound without an amplifier? Like I said, I'm not a HUGE audio guru, I just don't like my doors rattling off and my notes all over the place. I'm a lot bigger on mid-range and treble.
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Old 04-15-2009, 06:39 PM   #5
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Thanks for the link to the wiring diagram. I'm really horrible at figuring out what to do with that sort of thing though. Do I just not plug the amplifier pre-outs going to the deck in or what? How horrible will it sound without an amplifier? Like I said, I'm not a HUGE audio guru, I just don't like my doors rattling off and my notes all over the place. I'm a lot bigger on mid-range and treble.
It won't sound bad if you run the components off the headunit but it will sound better if you run the components off a amp because the amp will provide better power. You would want to try and match the RMS of the components to the RMS of a amp. For example if a set of components can handle 170 watts RMS you would want a amp that can provide around 170 watts RMS. Headunits can't provide that type of power. Headunits might have a peak of 60 watts or something but the RMS would be lower then that. To get the most out of your components they need adequate power. For rattling and road noise you can deaden your doors with Second Skin Damplifier or Damplifier Pro. You could also look into Dynamat as well. Hope that helps I'm pretty much a noob to car audio as well.
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Old 04-15-2009, 11:21 PM   #6
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[QUOTE=Xeremeh;6119329]Hey guys,

I've finally gone out and done a little ground work. Since I have the Shaker 500, my vehicle's abit twitch when it comes to sound. QUOTE]


Okay, I have a question. Please don't laugh at me, I know pretty much nothing about cars, but I'm attempting to learn. Ha ha. So, I just got an 09 but it doesn't come with the Shaker, it comes with the most basic sound system it could come with. How would I go about replacing the sound system I have now with the Shaker and how much would it cost? Because the speakers actually come out of the door, correct? Well my door is just...well a door. No hole or whatever for the speaker. Help? =]
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Old 04-15-2009, 11:25 PM   #7
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[QUOTE=dangggjackie;6120770]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xeremeh View Post
Hey guys,

I've finally gone out and done a little ground work. Since I have the Shaker 500, my vehicle's abit twitch when it comes to sound. QUOTE]


Okay, I have a question. Please don't laugh at me, I know pretty much nothing about cars, but I'm attempting to learn. Ha ha. So, I just got an 09 but it doesn't come with the Shaker, it comes with the most basic sound system it could come with. How would I go about replacing the sound system I have now with the Shaker and how much would it cost? Because the speakers actually come out of the door, correct? Well my door is just...well a door. No hole or whatever for the speaker. Help? =]
The speakers are behind the door, the whole panel comes off and there under there. Next, do not worry about updating to the shaker 500 headunit it does nothing special. Buy a completly new aftermarket headunit.
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Old 04-15-2009, 11:32 PM   #8
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To op, go with a component setup, and yes ditch the door subs and put a sub in a box in the trunk and run the sub to a dedicated monoblock. If you go with passive crossovers, you can get away with just a front stage on a 2 channel amp. Now if you were going active, you would need a 4 way amp for all that.

Any rattles that may arise from the upgraded sound, as said, can be fixed with a sound deadener, such as dynamat.

Your amp will run a power, ground, and remote wire, then a set of component cables from the amp to the headunit, and then your speakers will connect to the amp as well.

It's really not as hard as it all sounds to wire up systems. I've been working on slowly installing stuff all week in my stang, and this is by far one of the easiest to wire up cars ever.

Edit: i have a set of phoenix gold 6.5" comps, they are like the budget grade **** when i bought them. They were $75 brand new, but there amazing components. They had awesome reviews on all kinds of boards. That was probably like a year ago, so im sure there is better but there what im installing.

Also you will need 6x8 adapter plates to install 6.5" component speakers. Ford uses a 6x8 speaker design, these will allow you to mount the 6.5" midbass where the stock 6x8 speaker is. Then the tweeters just mount in the door. Under door handle or next to door handle are best places. Just drill a hole and mount em up.

Search up Schosch (or whatever that brand is) SA68 on ebay. I just ordered a pair for like $15 shipped or so.
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Old 04-16-2009, 10:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cegha View Post
this is by far one of the easiest to wire up cars ever.
HAHAHA apparently you didn't run new speaker wires to the doors....everything was easy except that.

I had to remove my doors to do it correctly.
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Old 04-16-2009, 11:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangggjackie View Post
Okay, I have a question. Please don't laugh at me, I know pretty much nothing about cars, but I'm attempting to learn. Ha ha. So, I just got an 09 but it doesn't come with the Shaker, it comes with the most basic sound system it could come with. How would I go about replacing the sound system I have now with the Shaker and how much would it cost? Because the speakers actually come out of the door, correct? Well my door is just...well a door. No hole or whatever for the speaker. Help? =]
You need the 2-4 amps as well as the shaker 500 or 100 headunit as
well as the door and/or trunk speakers. The wiring thats missing is next.
Its junkyard time if you can find one that will let you strip them, yes there
are many needed, out of a 500 or 100 equipped stang. You will then have
what others have found to be junk and have swapped out for a real, not OEM
headunit and real, not OEM amps and speakers.
JL Audio is quality and the friendly salemen at Crutchfield.com
can sell you the right stuff for an easy installation.
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:06 PM   #11
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I guess better power is a way of saying, but i prefer to say cleaner power which is probaly what he is trying to get out.

In short because an amp is designed to be just an amp, it has better and more components for filtering which allows for the amp to go louder without (clipping)distorting, where a radio will distort as you turn the volume up, and that is what we mean by cleaner power.

You are Semi right on the speaker RMS, if you under power speakers they will sound horrible, however unless you are running under 20 watts you are really not going to under power most speakers.

When it comes to buying speakers always look for one with a higher rating then the amp, rule of thumb would be, if you have an amp that is 400 watts RMS, and the amp is a 4 channel with 100 watts RMS for each speaker, well then you want to find a speaker that can handle 150 watts RMS each or maybe a little higher, never suggest going over double the amount though because then it is possible the speaker will be under powered.

Just also be carefull when buying, some speaker or amp companies advertise there peak power, some do it by RMS, you want to make sure your RMS of the speaker is a the same or over that of the amps RMS.

Also make sure you read the speaker box, it might say something like 150 Watts RMS, but they might mean for the pair, so that would make each speaker 75 Watts RMS

Quote:
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It won't sound bad if you run the components off the headunit but it will sound better if you run the components off a amp because the amp will provide better power. You would want to try and match the RMS of the components to the RMS of a amp. For example if a set of components can handle 170 watts RMS you would want a amp that can provide around 170 watts RMS. Headunits can't provide that type of power. Headunits might have a peak of 60 watts or something but the RMS would be lower then that. To get the most out of your components they need adequate power. For rattling and road noise you can deaden your doors with Second Skin Damplifier or Damplifier Pro. You could also look into Dynamat as well. Hope that helps I'm pretty much a noob to car audio as well.
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Old 04-16-2009, 12:40 PM   #12
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Okay. So I'm taking all of ya'lls advice in mind when I'm looking through here... What's the difference between 2- and 3- way components, and if I decide to put a 4-channel amp in, will I hafta re-wire the doors?
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:32 PM   #13
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Just also be carefull when buying, some speaker or amp companies advertise there peak power, some do it by RMS, you want to make sure your RMS of the speaker is a the same or over that of the amps RMS.
This is a good point, but to add something here: Companies that usually make a better product and are proud of their quality will advertise the RMS rating instead the peak power. Peak power is pretty much a worthless specification to look at it.

For example, JL Audio doesn't even tell you what their peak power is...If you need a 500W amp, you buy their 500W amp and you get 500W....end of story...
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Old 04-16-2009, 01:39 PM   #14
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Not to cut in, but for a decent setup (including the HU and professional install) - how much are we looking at?
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Old 04-16-2009, 02:17 PM   #15
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Not to cut in, but for a decent setup (including the HU and professional install) - how much are we looking at?
BestCry wants $89 to install the front pair, $69 for the rear, and around $119 for the HU IIRC. That also doesn't count for the harness and dash plates that you need. Speakers run anywhere from $75-$125 per pair, and HUs are all over the place. Mine was $600.

I bought the metra harness, the double DIN kit, some zip ties and wire connectors, and the regulator from radioshack for around $30-$40 or so, IIRC. It's really easy to do. You just hafta be patient about it, and have a few common tools.

As far as the thread goes though.. I'm still torn. I want to do this, but I'm not sure how in depth I'll hafta go into it. My buddy was telling me that they will sound good without an amplifier to run them, but MUCH better with one. But I'm not really so sure on having to run wires through the doors. Any knowledge on this?
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Old 04-16-2009, 04:22 PM   #16
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BestCry wants $89 to install the front pair, $69 for the rear, and around $119 for the HU IIRC. That also doesn't count for the harness and dash plates that you need. Speakers run anywhere from $75-$125 per pair, and HUs are all over the place. Mine was $600.
Here is a pic of a Circuit Crappy install....
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Old 04-16-2009, 04:34 PM   #17
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Here is a pic of a Circuit Crappy install....
You get what you pay for I guess
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Old 04-16-2009, 05:08 PM   #18
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Okay. So I'm taking all of ya'lls advice in mind when I'm looking through here... What's the difference between 2- and 3- way components, and if I decide to put a 4-channel amp in, will I hafta re-wire the doors?
Let me see if I can shed a little light on the subject.

Speakers come in basically 2 flavors: full range and component.

A Full Range speaker is one that uses 1, 2, 3, and sometimes even 4 seperate cones or speakers to make one speaker capable of a full range of output. Usually you see this in a 2-way speaker in sizes of 3", 4", 5 1/4", 6", 5x7, and 6x9. Sometimes the smaller ones are dual cone (a smaller cone attached to the main cone of the speaker), but mostly you see a small tweeter mounted in front of the main cone. These are all-in-one speakers and only have one set of terminals to hook your wires to. Full Range speakers are usually entry level and rated for lower power handling, but you can get some halfway decent full range speakers in some brands.

A component speaker is one where you have a seperate speaker for each range of frequencies, and some kind of crossover device to allow only the frequencies that each speaker can play to get to them. This is the speaker you would see as a round midrange and a seperate tweeter, usually with the crossover mounted in a plastic box. You can get components seperately (ie a tweeter or a midbass driver), or in a set. The sets come in two flavors, a two way and a three way. The two way is most common, where you have a 4" and tweeter, a 5 1/4" and tweeter, or a 6 1/2" and tweeter. Three way setups usually come in a 6-4-1 setup which is a 6.5", 4", and tweeter. In a component setup, you would run 1 speaker wire to the crossover, and from there, a wire to each component speaker.

In either case, you can use the factory wire in the door, although there are some "ifs" with components.
If you use the factory wires in the door, you may have to still run a wire from the head unit or amplifier to the kick panel and cut and splice to those wires going to the door, so that you are not running off the factory amplifier (if you have one).
If you have a nice component set with a good looking crossover and want to display it, you would have to run extra wires into the door.
If you decide you want to "bi-amp" the components, or in other words run one channel from an amplifier to the tweeter alone, and another channel to the mid-range alone, you would need to run extra wiring into the door.
If you are running a high end amplifier and high end component speakers, the factory wiring is probably not the best wire to use... It would be like running a 60" HDTV off a blu-ray player using $5 radio shack RCA's in place of a good HDMI cable.

As far as an amplifier goes, any head unit you use will have what are called "integrated circuit amplifiers". Without going into too much detail, IC amps are small electronic devices that have all the components of an amplifier built into a tiny little package. A standalone amplifier will have a seperate power supply, power filtration, pre-amp stage, amplifier stage, and in general are higher quality and capable of handling way more current. IC amps usually have their power measured at one frequency for a short period of time, where a regular amplifier will be measured at a full range of frequencies, and can handle the output for a much longer period of time. There are many advantages to having a seperate amplifier, but the bottom line is, it's better.

A four channel amplifier would have four individual channels, paired into a front and rear section of the amplifier. You can run the front two channels to one or two pairs of speakers, and the rear two channels to a subwoofer. Most amplifiers have built in electronic crossovers now that allow you to filter the deep bass from the signal going to the door speakers (and rear speakers), and only send those deep frequencies to the subwoofer. This would drastically lessen the amount of rattling in the doors, as well as allow you to play the speakers at a higher volume without distortion. It is definitely the preferable way to go if you can afford to do it.

This is all rather simplified of course, but it should give you an idea of what you are hearing when people talk about different types of speakers..
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Old 04-17-2009, 09:33 AM   #19
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Just found this today...

http://i.gizmodo.com/5214792/giz-exp...00000-speakers
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