You may change your opinion of Livernois...
11-04-2009, 02:03 PM
#1
4th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,699
You may change your opinion of Livernois...
After reading this...
I gave Livernois every chance to make things right before I told anyone anything but the clock has ran out so I might as well share my story of some seriously screwed up business dealings...
For those that don't know, I got a set of their type 'R' racing heads. These were supposed to be the 'best of the best' in heads. These things cost me 3 thousand dollars ON TOP of me giving them back a perfectly good set of their stage 3 heads so I am into these heads for a whopping 6 thousand dollars.
At the time I got the heads, there were some claims being made about Livernois fudging flow numbers and I went out and had the heads flow tested at my own expense to help Livernois out and, admittedly, give myself some piece of mind.
On ininitial startup, it was discovered that the drivers side cam which was a 'special' Livernois grind brand new from comp was bent. This is at startup, brand new heads and cams. I sent the cams back to Livernois and after 2 months, I finally got word from them that comp agreed the cam was bent and warrantied them and gave me a new set of cam shafts.
During this time, I pulled the heads completely and had them inspected. Turns out they were damn near destroyed at startup from the bent cam. The drivers side is complete trash and the passenger side is maybe good for a salvage for some parts at best.
This is the last email I received from Mike Schropp where he acknowledges the damage from the bent cam they sent me with the brand new heads...
I'm sorry, but as I replied to him, 'ARE YOU FRIGGIN' KIDDING ME?'
So I am out 6 thousand dollars on a set of heads that came screwed up and got 2 minutes of use out of them. Heads that were already acknowledged to have a bent cam from day one (that nobody seemed to catch mind you) and I am just OUT OF LUCK? I'm not even mentioning the fact the bent cam also cost me a 12 thousand dollar motor.
Friggin' ridiculous...
My biggest regret over the years is not just shelling out the money in the first place and going with JPC/RGR from day one. I would have saved a ton in the end. I will not let anyone but Rich Groh or Justin Burcham ever touch my car again...
I gave Livernois every chance to make things right before I told anyone anything but the clock has ran out so I might as well share my story of some seriously screwed up business dealings...
For those that don't know, I got a set of their type 'R' racing heads. These were supposed to be the 'best of the best' in heads. These things cost me 3 thousand dollars ON TOP of me giving them back a perfectly good set of their stage 3 heads so I am into these heads for a whopping 6 thousand dollars.
At the time I got the heads, there were some claims being made about Livernois fudging flow numbers and I went out and had the heads flow tested at my own expense to help Livernois out and, admittedly, give myself some piece of mind.
On ininitial startup, it was discovered that the drivers side cam which was a 'special' Livernois grind brand new from comp was bent. This is at startup, brand new heads and cams. I sent the cams back to Livernois and after 2 months, I finally got word from them that comp agreed the cam was bent and warrantied them and gave me a new set of cam shafts.
During this time, I pulled the heads completely and had them inspected. Turns out they were damn near destroyed at startup from the bent cam. The drivers side is complete trash and the passenger side is maybe good for a salvage for some parts at best.
This is the last email I received from Mike Schropp where he acknowledges the damage from the bent cam they sent me with the brand new heads...
On our end we would probably not easily be able to sell them. We try to not deal anything that is not a first hand item just because it avoids any possible complications. I would agree that the bent cam probably did a fair amount of that damage and caused that head to go south quick.
At this point though I don’t see how we could repair the damage to the one head because of how extensive the cam tower damage is. The galling and aluminum damage is pretty bad. So it seems as that only really leaves us with one good head. We could take that one head that is good and just clean it up and some basic freshen up stuff on it so you could sell it. On the other bad head however I would say we could salvage the parts used in it but we would need to go through and do another casting up to match the good head.
Is this something that you would want to do?
Thanks
Mike
At this point though I don’t see how we could repair the damage to the one head because of how extensive the cam tower damage is. The galling and aluminum damage is pretty bad. So it seems as that only really leaves us with one good head. We could take that one head that is good and just clean it up and some basic freshen up stuff on it so you could sell it. On the other bad head however I would say we could salvage the parts used in it but we would need to go through and do another casting up to match the good head.
Is this something that you would want to do?
Thanks
Mike
I'm sorry, but as I replied to him, 'ARE YOU FRIGGIN' KIDDING ME?'
So I am out 6 thousand dollars on a set of heads that came screwed up and got 2 minutes of use out of them. Heads that were already acknowledged to have a bent cam from day one (that nobody seemed to catch mind you) and I am just OUT OF LUCK? I'm not even mentioning the fact the bent cam also cost me a 12 thousand dollar motor.
Friggin' ridiculous...
My biggest regret over the years is not just shelling out the money in the first place and going with JPC/RGR from day one. I would have saved a ton in the end. I will not let anyone but Rich Groh or Justin Burcham ever touch my car again...
11-04-2009, 02:11 PM
#2
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: CA
Posts: 434
With the amount of money you have put in I say you don't take it laying down and if they refuse to fix the problem, you find your self a good lawyer.
Good luck to you, you got one of the sickest stangs out there and hope everything gets back in order for you.
Good luck to you, you got one of the sickest stangs out there and hope everything gets back in order for you.
11-04-2009, 02:14 PM
#3
4th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,699
Thanks but the reality is when dealing with 'aftermarket' parts - you are pretty much screwed if anything goes wrong - even something as blatant as F'ed up crap from get go.
Sucks - but the way it is...
Sucks - but the way it is...
11-04-2009, 02:33 PM
#4
4th Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,699
What pisses me off is I understand that it is not really Livernois 'fault' that comp supplied them a ****ed up camshaft.
What gets me is that I don't have any leverage at all with comp but Livernois does - they purchase tons of parts from them every year and have a much greater chance of holding them accountable than I ever would. However, I'm just out of luck. It surely wasn't MY fault that the heads were screwed up from day one yet I have to be out 18 grand.
It's a travesty.
What gets me is that I don't have any leverage at all with comp but Livernois does - they purchase tons of parts from them every year and have a much greater chance of holding them accountable than I ever would. However, I'm just out of luck. It surely wasn't MY fault that the heads were screwed up from day one yet I have to be out 18 grand.
It's a travesty.
11-04-2009, 02:51 PM
#5
6th Gear Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Nicely done
Posts: 11,881
very sorry to hear this modaddict.
seems like comp is the true culprit
here and like you say it's not really
livernois' fault.
maybe one of us can invent some sort
of test jig, to test new cams for
straightness, before installing them. we
could make a fortune.
seems like comp is the true culprit
here and like you say it's not really
livernois' fault.
maybe one of us can invent some sort
of test jig, to test new cams for
straightness, before installing them. we
could make a fortune.
11-04-2009, 03:34 PM
#10
Gentleman's Relish
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 13,090
I don't see where they are refusing to replace the heads at their cost...??? My response to him would've have been "That sounds fine if that mean that Livernois is covering the cost of replacing the damaged heads?"
That's what you really need to ask. All I see is inference. THey haven't refused anything and you haven't point blank asked. The situation sucks but I don't see the fuss on what you're saying at this point. If I don't see it, a judge won't either.
That's what you really need to ask. All I see is inference. THey haven't refused anything and you haven't point blank asked. The situation sucks but I don't see the fuss on what you're saying at this point. If I don't see it, a judge won't either.