inagadadavida

Most muscle cars in the late 60's and early 70's were underrated from the factory to help with insurance rates. Alot of cars had more horsepower than was advertised. The more horsepower you had, the higher your insurance would be regardless of the car.

GT Bob

The reason you see so much difference between then and now in HP numbers is that until some time in the 70's, auto makers were allowed to advertise the horsepower their engines made with absolutely nothing driving from the crank and no flywheel and could be done on special test engines. After the change in the 70's, they had to have a flywheel and I think a waterpump. Then, sometime in the late 80's, the numbers became fully dressed, exactly as they would go into a car and had to be repeatable on any engine that was spot pulled from the assembly line.

AS for why they underrated the engine? To keep the insurance companies from wetting their pants and charging people ridiculous rates.

Oh, and for the record... Richard Hammond owns a Challenger SRT8, a 66 390 GT mustang, a GT500 (not the one in that episode) and a new Camaro SS. Jermey Clarkson owns several Vette's and James may even has owned a few American cars. Keep in mind that the BBC recieves most of it's money from the Government, so any show that is not actual news broadcast has a decidedly skewed point of view that anything not British sucks, and everything British is awesome... Add to the fact that none of the have ANY mechanical background and 95% of all the technical info is scripted by writers who don't know much more than they...

SirKnightTG

Exactly. Their knowledge, or lack thereof, in addition to dissing American cars is why I give the one finger salute to those guys.

TBH, if they're not showing muscle cars or hot rods on some show I don't care. Most modern cars I dislike with a passion as well.

I'm A LOT more tolerant with motorcycles though, strangely enough. The only thing I can say I dislike there are scooters. I'm not super keen on Jap bikes, but I like them 1000x more than Jap cars. Ducatis are ok, but every one I've ever heard sounds like it's about to fall apart. Nothing compares to my loud *** 2006 Harley Street Rod though. Opening the throttle on that sounds like a damn dragon roaring. LOL! It sets off alarms when I'm TRYING to be quiet.

Anyway....

MR_Q

I thought Detroit changed the way they rated hp in 1972 which was a large part of why HP dropped so hard between 71 and 72? I thought I read something about engines requiring they be tested with full exhaust and smog equipment in 72 and prior to that they werent? Any truth to that?

Top Gear is still my favorite show, regardless of factual errors. I watch it because Clarkson is a giant, unapologetic ***, and its just about three guys thrashing the **** out of expensive performance cars and goofing off. How is that not good TV? Where else are you going to see a short British dude flip a jet car at record breaking speed, or a Corvette chasing a Ford Fiesta through a shopping mall?

robs

Only want a Roush if you wanna do your sister eh? English 'Tards.

S281 E

^ huh?

Batenswytch

Thanks for the info on HP ratings, new and old - it all makes perfect sense, and I should have realized that the losses are from energy transference, not fabricated numbers, but it never hurts to ask before assuming.

I do have to agree with the fact that the hosts of Top Gear are most likely paid by the British government to **** on American cars. Like I said, it made no sense for the guy w/the classic Bullet to run down the GT500, especially after he exclaimed GOOD GOD! about it. LOL.

And about Europeans having different taste in cars than we do in the U.S. - Just imagine what Fiat, by way of Chrysler, may try to cram down our throats in the coming years.... It hurts to think about it - it's like Budweiser being foreign owned now. It hurts me.

thedrod

Watch the video posted earlier.

Norm Peterson

That started about 1968, maybe 1967. Summer of 1968 I picked up a co-op work assignment in an insurance company's "Loss Prevention" department and can pin it down that way. The main magic insurance industry "break point" defining the boundary of "high performance" was 1 HP per 10 lbs. There might have been some support for 12 lbs/HP being the lower limit of "intermediate performance cars", but that didn't attract the industry-wide attention that sub-10 did.

Funny thing was, folks in that business knew (sort of) that some of the ratings were being fudged down, but were incapable of thinking outside the nice simple little 1:10 box by enough to cope with it. Guess they were hoping that loss experience would solve the rate categorization problem for them without burning them too badly in the meantime.

Ghost, I think that 1:10 puts your 429's advertised rating in the proper perspective - I'm guessing that your 'bird weighs in at about 3600 or a bit more. (I'll look it up later as I have a tabulation of the 1968 US Domestic car specs at home).


Norm

Batenswytch

I think we'll be finding it weighs in at just over 4300 lbs! It is a 'fordoor' and loaded out, so it feels pretty cumbersome. LOL Still a fun driver though, and rides smooth as glass. Its just... weird... to look at. Cool - but weird. Looks like the love child of a 1st or 2nd gen Cougar and a hearse.

This from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Th...th_generation)

"The 1968 Thunderbird saw the introduction of the new 385 series big-block 429 cu in (7 L) engines. Like most Ford motors of the time, they were "underrated" at 360 hp (268 kW) for insurance reasons. The Thunderbird motors also got special treatment with wedge style heads, making a significant power increase over their conventional headed brothers. These motors made the cars some of the quickest and fastest ever produced, despite their larger size and heavier body on frame construction. 1968 and 1969 model years saw minor trim changes respectively."

If the T-bird wasn't a survivor car and 97% flawless, my husband would LOVE to yank that 429 out, rebuild it/hop it up, and shoe-horn it into a Mustang. LOL

If you're curious, heres a link to the T-birds Cardomain site: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3356060