siggyfreud

I am posting this from a thread over at Soec.org that I have started. It is from a member there who has experience with my particular car. Originally posted by Glowstick from http://saleenforums.soec.org/showthr...ed=1#post35809

"I am so sorry to hear about your car. I also looked at this particular car back in December at Courtesy, and instantly fell in love with it! To me, this car is what I judge any ones I think about buying. It was very, very hard to walk away....

The first time I went to look at the car I was told it was previously owned by someone who traded it in on a truck and the second time it was a car aficinado who had too many cars. Now, I've never been a fan of the instant lying salesman in any business, but whatever.

There was a ticking sound in the car when I first drove it, and they told me it had been fixed, that the valves had been replaced. I said, well send it back, and I want to know where it was fixed (which they could not produce a paper stating exactly what was done with it) First they said it was fixed inhouse, and then they said it was fixed at Fast Specialties. Courtesy did everything in their power possible to convince me that some cars - especially with a supercharger, may tick, and that it was just this particular car. Usually I'm not so adamant about issues, but the car only had 4700 miles and Courtesy was so excited to let me lowball the price and agree to it. Had there not been a tick, I would own the car.

I called Saleen and asked them to give me a little info on this car. They said that the Saleen warranty was voided because it had been raced, however they did not know about the Ford warranty, but not to expect one. If something was to happen, Ford would go to Saleen, and then find out the car was raced and then void the Ford warranty. Now, please remember I am just repeating what I was told.

I went to Courtesy and told them I had talked to Saleen, and asked them to take the car out on a PPI. I had the car out all day. I was quite upset Landmark wouldn't do a PPI, but I was referred to a great local shop by a friend.

I was able to get up and under the car, which was quite a surprise. I found enough rubber under the bumper and wheel wells to make a new tire! Seriously though, there was a considerable amount of rubber in the described areas. I also found that the rear diff had shavings in it and that the battery wasn't attached correctly. This was on top of the ticking sound. Now, I did a basic PPI and while I wanted to know more about the ticking, I wasn't willing to pull it apart to do so. I was just as interested in other potential problems. Now, excluding the ticking, the car did exceptionally well.

I also asked where the original wheels were, because it had the upgraded set, and they were unwilling to call the previous owner.

I went back to Courtesy and told them what I found, and that I would be happy to purchase the car when they could guarantee the ticking would be fixed, and to call me when it was done. I was passed through their line up again, and as time went on, their story changed about what they did or didn't know, and how they had an "in" with Landmark and would do anything in their power to make it right. I talked with them about the issues I found with the car (rubber, and the potential for the arching in the battery) and showed them the PPI. They seemed pretty embarrased about all the rubber, and said they knew it had been raced, and seemed to have some insider knowledge as I talked with them. They do know alot about this car they aren't willing to discuss.

Courtesy told me they acknowledged they had an obligation to fix any known problems, and that they would make it right.

They called me the next day to set up a purchase and delivery date, as it was "going back to Fast Specialties". I told them once again I would be happy to come up there upon completion and gave them another offer for the car. I never heard from them again. At first, I chalked it up to being a woman and them playing hardball, waiting to see my interest. It was later I found out you had bought it.

I actually have video of the car ticking when I took it for the PPI.

Now, noone could tell me, not Saleen, not Courtesy or anyone else what "being raced" meant, and how or what exact incident voided the warranty.

I am in no means car literate, and asked for alot of help in this decision. I just couldn't do it if they would not guarantee that the tick would be fixed. And, I still wait for the perfect one to come along.

Again, I am so sorry for what happened. You really do have a car I would love to have. I really hope Courtesy will step up. Please let us know how it goes." -Glowstick

My response and their reply:

Originally Posted by siggy_freud



Hopefully it all goes well tomorrow. If not, I may be in touch for a little backup help if you're willing lol. Did Courtesy ever mention anything to you regarding a warranty? I actually mentioned the fact that Saleen had voided the warranty at which point I was told they were separate things and Ford's was still good.

I noticed this was your first post. I really appreciate you taking the time to join the forum and provide me with that information.

Glowstick:
Courtesy did mention to me that the Ford warranty was separate from Saleen warranty. That is what they were trying to get me to look past. It was the guy at Saleen (that knows me by name now) that told me what might happen if something went wrong.

Courtesy admitted to me that they knew something was wrong after I did the PPI, and told me they were going to fix it, even if they had to send it to Landmark. They told me that if I bought the car, the Ford warranty would still be fine. I told them what Saleen said. First, they shrugged it off, and then said, well... maybe you are right. That's when I asked them why they would outsource a Ford car under warranty (which remember they never did, I asked to see parts too when they were "done" with it) when it should be covered in their shop? They were very evasive with my questions. I really think they were trying to avoid the warranty being voided by Ford so that the purchaser wouldn't be aware of the issue. I think they were hoping to get someone who wouldn't really know the car they just bought to get it and then find out what was up.

They would not absolutely guarantee in writing for me any kind of warranty on the car when I asked for it.

You can contact me if you need any help. I am not a car expert by any means, however I did go up there on 4 separate occasions and can talk about my experience.

As for my first post, I was just waiting for something important to say.. and what is more important than helping out?

nicksfoursix

Siggyfreud,
Really sorry to hear of your dilema...especially when you discuss a specialty vehicle such as a Saleen as well as others. I work and have worked in a dealership environment since the early '80s.
What it's really going to boil down to is to what is in writing. This has to do with any warranties reviewed or discussed. Also anything (such as engine noises) heard during the warranty period needs to be in writing.
This is not to say that something will not be done for you, if not found in writing, but what is written, is indisputable.
I would hope to say that this dealership will step up to the plate and assist you internally (within the dealership) or represent your needs as a customer to Ford and/or Saleen. You may consider contacting Ford and/or Saleen directly and ask for their involvement.
If no one steps up and there are no warranties and you are considering out-of-the pocket costs, I would look for a large amount of participation from the other parties. I have seen multiple-party participations, in your case Ford and/or Saleen and/or you and....or whatever combination of parties, but your costs, if any, should be minimal-to-none.
You may try legal remedy, but again here people will be looking to see what is in writing and it is here where the "fine print giveth and the fine print taketh away".
Void a warranty??? We had a gentleman come in our shop to correct a ticking noise from his engine on his Z06 Corvette. He purchased it used from a local high-end independent car dealer. We lifted it in the air to locate the noise (it was a light lower end knock) and found long tube headers, O2 sensor simulators and a bunch of other goodies.
We contacted out technical assistance center to discuss other likeable repair cases of the same nature and dicussion to plot a course of repair. Being under warranty, they asked us to hook up a scan tool and bring up the vehicle's PCM programming ID. We were required to take a picture of the scan tool screen and e-mail it to them together with the VIN number. Come to find that the vehicle no longer had the original PCM (OEM) programming and somebody overwrote the program with non-OEM engine parameters. The technical assitance people contacted the factory warranty center and a warranty block was placed on that VIN number. With a block on the VIN, any dealer performing a repair under warranty will not be paid. It could be a block on only engine repairs, or all powertrain repairs,...very seldom, if at all, on the whole vehicle (unless it has been flood damaged or a total insurance loss).
But, yes a vehicle warranty can be blocked (voided) for certain factors.
As said before, I hope you the best in your plight and keep us posted.

siggyfreud

Thank you for your support. I'm hoping for good news tomorrow, especially considering I brought this car into them for engine noise while the car was under warranty (about 1.5 months ago), and it was only 20 some days after the 3/36k warranty was over that it exploded. Still trying to figure out the status of this power-train warranty that 'isn't under my name'.

I'll be sure and keep you all posted.

*JackBurton*

I read the same thing. What worries me is that, during my deal, I had to make sure that the exact complaint was written onto the work order. When I would pick it up they would then say "no thing found" or "unable to duplicate". It sounds like that did not happen (I am not point any fingers at you btw)

I also saw in the Oregon LL a comment about implied warranty. I wonder if the girl writing down the balance of the warranty would fall under that?

I really hope you get good news tomorrow. If not sounds like it is time to contact a LL attorney. Fingers crossed.

cummins cowboy

if all else fails file a small claims suit, it costs 50 bucks to file if nothing else you might squeeze some money out of them. I didn't know racing would void a warranty.

eolson

Very sorry to hear about your engine. I had the Saleen Series VI SC installed on my Premium Package 06 Coupe at the Irvine Saleen plant in Jan. of 06' I also had equipment installed as upgrades at the old Troy Saleen plant. My car is so far still running well.

The fact that the dealership wasn't dead clear in writing about the exact relationship between the Ford coverage and the Saleen coverage, and the exact coverage remaining on that car at the time you were interested in it is suspicious and misleading.

Those records if written up properly, should simply be transferred with with the cars title and instruction manual, just as I have all my documentation with my car, and it's Saleen and other additions.

Saleen is clear in their instruction manual for their cars that the SC warranty, which is only a year if installed privately, that any evidence of racing voids their warranty. The tunes that come from Saleen wether it be the basic 435 HP tune, the 475 HP(or 465 HP) upgrade, or the Extreme 11lb tune, all run way too lean and have way too aggressive ignition timing for racing. Any high preformance shop that races is frightened by these tunes on the dyno.

The fact that there is a race radiator and excessive rubber under the car, and the dealership knew it's history is where it's all at.

Dealerships are very dishonest about this issue. Your warranty should have been in big clear language in the glove box with the original sales sheet listing everything on the car, or there isn't one.

The clicking noise would have been resolved by any honest dealer before it was sold, since these cars are under boost, there is no maybe. They own the car before it's sold, and they are responsible. The car was known to them to have been raced, and have an un-natural sound when running. They passed this on to you, with out clear warranty information, or fixing it.

Your situation sucks. If you love the car, get a forged all aluminum engine, don't ever go back on a Saleen tune, and don't ever have work done by a Ford dealership unless it's on the electrical system. Your car is a beautiful red. Erik

Riptide

Mines ticked since the day I bought it. I was under the impression these cars have noisy injectors.

nicksfoursix

Many people here are bringing up some valid points. I am unsure of the laws governing automobile sales in your state. In the state I reside, each used vehicle (I presume your vehicle was titled as used) must clearly have a document posted on the vehicle much like the new vehicle sticker found on new vehicles.
This document specifically states the warranty status of the vehicle for sale. This document
clearly states one or more of these warranty factors:
1). Vehicle possesses the balance of the factory warranty. (and what the balance is)
2). Vehicle is sold without warranty coverage, but an extended warranty is OR is not available for this vehicle at an additional cost to the purchaser.
3). The vehicle is sold as-is and posseses no warranties expressed nor implied.
This form is removed from the vehicle when sold and becomes a signed document so that each party understands any warranty present, available or unavailable on the vehicle being
purchased.
Also, if this vehicle is being resold as a "lemon law" vehicle, this must be made known to the potential purchaser that this vehicle was previous sold through state "lemon law" procedures.
I hate to say this, but you may be working with an unscrupulous dealer. I am not "throwing rocks" at the dealer as there are many variables which can effect the outcome, but whatever is done should be done in the best interests of the customer.
If things turn sour and you feel this matter has been resolved unfairly, your state's attorney
general's office for consumer fraud may help you if this is the fact. (I say this because many of your statements contain unclarity about what warranties and who's warranties were in force when you bought the vehicle. I would think that one or some of your sales documents contain language about applicable warranties).
In some instances, the state attorney's offices have a consumer fraud division. This division could see if there are any laws governing the dealer's responsibility in informing you. This may be an avenue if all else fails.
I would not throw something like this in the dealer's face. They may decide upon their own or with some type of factory assistance to assist you in this matter. Let them say their piece and see if it to your liking.
Again, Good Luck

siggyfreud

Thanks for the advice. There is a sheet here in the mix of paperwork that has an X under sold as is and states there is no Dealer warranty. The sales man told me that this only refers to the a warranty agreement between the dealer and myself, and does not have any affect on the factory warranties.

Regardless, on the copy that I have there are no signatures.

Perhaps I was naive in believing that when four people from a dealership tell me it has a power-train warranty lasting an additional 2 years 3 months they're telling the truth. If it had been a small run-of-the-mill dealership perhaps I would have scrutinized more, but I made maybe I made the mistake of trusting them based on their history and size.

hammeron

sorry for your troubles siggy and i hope
things work out for you.