pascal

There is STILL no replacement for displacement guys, come on!
It's pure physics.

Don't compare modern smaller engines to the old bigger ones because you have a technology leap there.

Take the new 5.0 engine technology, bump this thing up to 7 liters and you come back and tell me the new found displacement isn't say... worthy of performance?? LOL.
Technology allows you to squeeze more productivity out of a small engine compared to an older bigger one.
The real argument is in power delivery and how much of it do you need on a street car.

Despite all that, Top fuel and weight pulling isn't achieved with coffee grinders.

OhEightGT

True, I guess what we are trying to say is for any gains one might achieve with an old school motor in a street driven s197, for street use at least, it just isn't practical, right? He would be able to make the motor that comes with his Mustang far more powerful dollar for dollar and hour for hour than putting something like that into the car, and be able to keep it practical/streetable to boot.

pascal

Everything is relative and that's why we have variances.
Today, you don't need 7 liters anymore to make an engine perform and that's due to technology.

The displacement thing is still irrefutable when it's called upon a certain application.

JIM5.0

That is why I brought up technology. I absolutely hate how big blocks are still dinosaurs with pushrods and no sort of variable anything, just a fixed inflexible single cam, poor and obsolete head designs, and no sort of important refinements that could make a 7L engine easily surpass 1000 BHP crank without any sort of forced induction.

The massive 8.2L (502ci) big blocks, I bet, can easily pump out 2000 BHP crank with direct injection, 5 valves per cylinder (3 intake and 2 exhaust), DOHC with independent cam phasing, variable length intake, and computer controls.
Sure, such an engine cannot rev very high, something just below but not much higher than 6K RPM because of their massively long strokes, but it is the massive torques throughout their entire RPM bandwidths, as small as its redline would be, that make them absolute monsters. This torque surpasses even turbocharged 7.4L power stroke diesels, and on gasoline at that too! The massive drawback of such massive gasoline big blocks is that they suck fuel like nobody's business. Even with all the technology I wish they had, such a beast might egt at most 10-12 MPG AVG.

JIM5.0

It actually depends. If you go to a salvage yard and find the right big block, mod it with the right bolt-ons, you could very cheaply make 600+ BHP crank.

Now, if you take the big block engine, and completely rebuild it with balanced steel forged crank, steel forged quality H-beam conrods, quality forged pistons, rebuild the heads with quality valves, springs, reseat the valve seats, port and polish them, and on top of that, add on quality bolt-ons, and go forced induction, you could very easily spend well above $15.
And then, you would have to rebuild the rest of your drive train to take that power: new tranny or a complete teardown and rebuild of your existing tranny (if it would even bolt on to the big block you got), proper drive shaft with U-joints capable of the massive amount of torque the engine will put on it, upgrading the rear gears, upgrading the axles.
The entire project would easily be 2 or 3 times the cost of the current total value of your car!

OhEightGT

That's what I was getting at more than anything, and trying to figure out. Even if you somehow got hold of a cheap already built engine making that kind of power, you're going to have to do a ridiculous amount of work on the rest of the car to even make it "halfway" work like it should. Even if you got the big motor for FREE you'd be into more money just getting it to work with the car than just getting the factory motor to that level of power in the first place. Just doesn't seem worth it, I mean, like was said, that's all relative, it just seems that for day to day street use on this car, in this application, not the daydream/racetrack kind of stuff, it's more practical, cheaper, and just all around better to get that power from the current design. Unless you're looking for that type of 1,000+ HP monster of course, and not something to use on the street.

Should have been more careful with the wording I guess. It would be stupid to say that a 4.6 or 5.4 could get the 2,000+ HP numbers of a big block. Just meant that for a street Mustang it seems a bit... odd in a way, to want to go the route that will cost multiple times more money, to get the same power you could get for a fraction of the cost with what the car already has and is capable of. (to a degree, I mean if huge numbers in the thousand horsepower or more range are the goal, the opposite would be true and it would be silly to attempt it with the factory equipment.)

Anyway, would love to see an s197 done up that way!

8178A

How big do you wan to go http://www.jonkaaseracingengines.com...e-mustang.html

JIM5.0

Now that is a monster engine, 9.6L!
I am also utterly amazed: 6800 RPM with a 4.375in stroke? Those Diamond pistons, Ackerly & Childs rings must be ceramic coated and/or have been made of some exotic materials to withstand the massive linear speeds from such a massively long stroke.

I am surprised this monster is not pumping out over 1000 BHP crank and 1000 ft-lbf crank as it is. Maybe just some tweaks here and there and the additional 100 BHP and 200ft-lbf will come.

Also, seeing how the engine modder literally designed his own hemisphrical heads for a Ford big block most not have been cheap. This engine is sure to cost well above $15K.

psfracer

Wow, there is so much mis-information in this thread I don't even know where to start.

First, with what I agree with:

For a street application, just stick with a mod motor, going big block ford would be a waste of time.

However, for a race application, I definitely disagree. I make close to 1,000 hp all motor, with reliability, run after run. The 572 cid motor I am running turns 8s also without even trying @ 3420lbs. Meanwhile I have a couple friends with mod motors pushing 25+ lbs of boost, loosing head gaskets, one lost a block, transmissions, etc.

The technology is there in the cylinder heads. Look at the TFS A460 head, the Kaase P51 head, the C460 heads, big power makers. I have a 4.500 stroke and routinely shift at 7500 rpm and have the limiter set at 8000.

In short, if you think the BBF is just an outdated boat anchor, then you need to do some reading before posting about a subject you know nothing about.

BTW, I don't know how I got here....lol, I was searching for something and this came up.

psfracer

Oh, and you can use the same aftermarket k-member (BMR, Racecraft), you just need to make different motor mounts. Combine that with the right oil pan (MOR 20625) and you are done.