Car isn't making the power it should (Could this be why?)
10-06-2011, 02:08 PM
#11
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 2,634
What are your rwtq numbers?
I know we kinda discussed this last year, the power issues. Your dyno was less than 350rwhp due to the valves in the intake plenum not opening all the way. That got fixed and you were closer to 450. Your 1/4 times are not much slower than mine. And the Challenger race you experienced is near the expected outcome. That he was gaining on you, but that you feel as though you are running out of steam. In mine, hitting 4th gear, acceleration slows down noticeably over 3rd. The combination of lower rpms with maybe 2psi less boost than peak (mine peaked at 11.5 on the Procharger tune), 3.31 gearing, and aerodynamics takes a toll at 100mph. I raced a G8 GXP or GTP, whatever one has the 6.2L in it was a dead even race....Until 4th gear, when he proceeded to pull on me. His was modded, yes, but not much: headers, exh, int, and tuning. My total lack of experience and experimentation at the drag strip, having only 4 passes during 2 visits netted me a best of 12.64 at 109. 500hp does not give impressive results in these cars until you change things to take advantage of that power. Our automatics would benefit greatly from a higher stall, and 3.73 gears. Things would change drastically with those two items. Of course then, some sticky tires would be very necessary. I had 460rwhp on Prochargers Mustang dyno, and 487 on the same dynojet you used last year with Ryan. My only mods over stock that effect power are the blower, shorty headers, and 3" Magnaflow cat-back exhaust. I dont have the FRPP intake, but would love to try it out.
My run in the 1/4, you can hear the tires break loose before shifting into 2nd. lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvZBffRp7hU
The guy you saw last year name is Ryan, take the time and money and let him get some readings from a dyno pull, and make some adjustments if necessary. 660-4162
If your using MC, understand that they call Ryan all the time for help. justsayin
My run in the 1/4, you can hear the tires break loose before shifting into 2nd. lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvZBffRp7hU
The guy you saw last year name is Ryan, take the time and money and let him get some readings from a dyno pull, and make some adjustments if necessary. 660-4162
If your using MC, understand that they call Ryan all the time for help. justsayin
10-06-2011, 05:00 PM
#12
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 536
The thing is I'd expect these times from a NON-intercooled Vortech/Paxton based upon other people's experiences with those setups. I even remember a guy running with cams and some other minor bolt-ons that hit a 12.8 @ 108
I'd expect the car to at least be close to, or match the MPH (112-116 MPH) of a 2007-2009 GT500 since they are outputting 500 HP @ the crank, which should end up around 425 RWHP. The car is missing that mark pretty substantially (108.91 MPH).
5.0's are getting these times with only 412 HP at the crank. Even if they are underrated substantially (say 440 @ the crank) that is still only about 375 RWHP, and they are pulling better MPH than me.
I think dialed in, this car should be running more like a 12.5 with a 2.0 60' @ 112-116... but maybe that isn't realistic? My full setup is at the end of this post.
Ryan was actually the one that tuned the car. I haven't got any check engine lights or anything and the car is mostly running good (it's having some minor issues when starting it up and bogging at low rpms when it's a cold start). I more or less trust Ryan working on my car, he has worked on it more than anyone else... just feel like something isn't quite right and trying to nail it down.
2006 Mustang GT Automatic
Novi 2200 H.O. Supercharger
Ford Racing 3v Intake Manifold
Kooks LT Headers
Kooks Catted X-Pipe
Pypes Mid Muffler System (catback)
Spohn Lower Control Arms
I'd expect the car to at least be close to, or match the MPH (112-116 MPH) of a 2007-2009 GT500 since they are outputting 500 HP @ the crank, which should end up around 425 RWHP. The car is missing that mark pretty substantially (108.91 MPH).
5.0's are getting these times with only 412 HP at the crank. Even if they are underrated substantially (say 440 @ the crank) that is still only about 375 RWHP, and they are pulling better MPH than me.
I think dialed in, this car should be running more like a 12.5 with a 2.0 60' @ 112-116... but maybe that isn't realistic? My full setup is at the end of this post.
Ryan was actually the one that tuned the car. I haven't got any check engine lights or anything and the car is mostly running good (it's having some minor issues when starting it up and bogging at low rpms when it's a cold start). I more or less trust Ryan working on my car, he has worked on it more than anyone else... just feel like something isn't quite right and trying to nail it down.
2006 Mustang GT Automatic
Novi 2200 H.O. Supercharger
Ford Racing 3v Intake Manifold
Kooks LT Headers
Kooks Catted X-Pipe
Pypes Mid Muffler System (catback)
Spohn Lower Control Arms
10-06-2011, 06:30 PM
#13
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 960
391rwtq
The volute on the Paxton/Vortech, kinda sucks compared to ProChargers. Not as efficient in moving air. Not trying to knock it, cause its still gonna make most people smile ear to ear. But the little differences between the two become a little more apparent when gettin down to the nitty gritty. You are maybe now experiencing those minor differences.
Maybe look into a smaller pulley for a couple more pounds of boost.
GT500's dyno out at about 440-445, but alot more torque than you and I. I did race one a couple years ago. I got the jump on him to start, we got to about 120 and he was in my blind spot. couldnt see him in my mirror, and coouldnt see his bumper in myh peripheral vision.
The volute on the Paxton/Vortech, kinda sucks compared to ProChargers. Not as efficient in moving air. Not trying to knock it, cause its still gonna make most people smile ear to ear. But the little differences between the two become a little more apparent when gettin down to the nitty gritty. You are maybe now experiencing those minor differences.
Maybe look into a smaller pulley for a couple more pounds of boost.
GT500's dyno out at about 440-445, but alot more torque than you and I. I did race one a couple years ago. I got the jump on him to start, we got to about 120 and he was in my blind spot. couldnt see him in my mirror, and coouldnt see his bumper in myh peripheral vision.
Last edited by SCCAGT; 10-06-2011 at 06:50 PM.
10-06-2011, 06:41 PM
#14
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 536
I did check a data log I did about a week ago and the highest the IAT went on a WOT run was just under 108 degrees. Not sure how to check the timing?
10-06-2011, 06:58 PM
#15
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 536
Procharger:
P1 - 1200 CFM
D1 - 1400 CFM
F1A - 1650 CFM
Vortech:
S-Trim - 1000 CFM
Si-Trim - 1150CFM
SQ-Trim - 1000 CFM
T-Trim - 1200 CFM
Ysi - 1600 CFM
Paxton:
Novi 1200 - 1000 CFM
Novi 1500 - 1200 CFM
Novi 2000 - 1400 CFM
Novi 2200 - 1450 CFM
1000 CFM = 680 supportable HP
1200 CFM = 825 supportable HP
1400 CFM = 925 supportable HP
1600 CFM = 1200 supportable HP
10-06-2011, 07:27 PM
#16
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 960
The Novi 2200 actually flows more than the P1 / D1 ( I think... based on this chart I found)
Procharger:
P1 - 1200 CFM
D1 - 1400 CFM
F1A - 1650 CFM
Vortech:
S-Trim - 1000 CFM
Si-Trim - 1150CFM
SQ-Trim - 1000 CFM
T-Trim - 1200 CFM
Ysi - 1600 CFM
Paxton:
Novi 1200 - 1000 CFM
Novi 1500 - 1200 CFM
Novi 2000 - 1400 CFM
Novi 2200 - 1450 CFM
1000 CFM = 680 supportable HP
1200 CFM = 825 supportable HP
1400 CFM = 925 supportable HP
1600 CFM = 1200 supportable HP
Procharger:
P1 - 1200 CFM
D1 - 1400 CFM
F1A - 1650 CFM
Vortech:
S-Trim - 1000 CFM
Si-Trim - 1150CFM
SQ-Trim - 1000 CFM
T-Trim - 1200 CFM
Ysi - 1600 CFM
Paxton:
Novi 1200 - 1000 CFM
Novi 1500 - 1200 CFM
Novi 2000 - 1400 CFM
Novi 2200 - 1450 CFM
1000 CFM = 680 supportable HP
1200 CFM = 825 supportable HP
1400 CFM = 925 supportable HP
1600 CFM = 1200 supportable HP
The CFM supportable hp works great in theory, but real world never really materializes the same way. Too many variables that end up effecting the final results.
P1 kit is 10 psi for 05-10 Mustangs, with max boost capability of 30psi
D1 makes 12 with max of 32
F1 starts at 16with max of 34 to the F4 with 45 max.
Obviously, we will never see the max psi capabilties of those. Just sayin for comparison, CFM isnt everything
Not saying psi is the deal breaker. Since freer flowing parts lower boost by having less restriction, which ends up making more power.
Regardless, you are in the ball park of normal. yes, slightly low, but I'm sure it's fixable.
As long as your fuel pressure doesnt drop when reaching the higher rpms, your fuel delivery is not the issue. That number is easily seen by the hand held tuners.
10-06-2011, 07:53 PM
#17
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 536
I don't know what PSI is required to fully utilize the full potential if that's what you meant. (Like for example, and I am totally making up these numbers, but if at 10 psi one blower may flow 500 cfm and another may flow 400 cfm at 10 psi... so in another words the chart leaves out how much psi is required to flow that much air and it may be deceiving?)
My car should be at 10 psi though, I think that's the pulley that comes with the kit
My car should be at 10 psi though, I think that's the pulley that comes with the kit
Last edited by gburke1; 10-07-2011 at 12:29 AM.
10-07-2011, 12:30 AM
#18
3rd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 536
I am going to pull the plugs and check the gap on them. When I had the Intake Manifold installed they said I needed new plugs & replaced them with Autolite HT0's (pretty sure that's what I had before).
The thing is I read that Autolite HT0 come stock with a .045 gap and they need to be gapped between .032 and .035 from what I've read... maybe they didn't realize this or overlooked it? Worth a check I think.
The thing is I read that Autolite HT0 come stock with a .045 gap and they need to be gapped between .032 and .035 from what I've read... maybe they didn't realize this or overlooked it? Worth a check I think.
10-07-2011, 02:47 AM
#19
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Pole
Posts: 6,716
umm.. wtf are those wires doing in the engine bay?!
I have did the install/removal about 5x total, and I have NEVER had to mess with any lines like you described on your car.
Check it out:
https://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l...f-again-2.html
I trap about 111mph in mine, even though my sig states 450whp, it's more like 420whp after a few runs.. give or take, especially with our crap 90 octane gas. I do have 4.10s and MT ET Streets and they
help PLENTY!
I run 12.5@110 pretty consistent, with 2.0 (crap!) 60 fts. I am happy knowing that with improvment, it'll be a 12.0 flat or better. If you have the 3.31s.. swap them out asap! They suck! Ditto on the stock torque converter too!
It's a vacuum based bypass set up, so you may want to check all your vacuum lines going from the bypass valves and make sure they aren't pinched or kinked. Where is your IAT sensor located?? I see you have the FRPP intake manifold.. they set up your KB BAP kinda weird, maybe they didn't even relocate the IAT sensor lol
I have did the install/removal about 5x total, and I have NEVER had to mess with any lines like you described on your car.
Check it out:
https://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l...f-again-2.html
I trap about 111mph in mine, even though my sig states 450whp, it's more like 420whp after a few runs.. give or take, especially with our crap 90 octane gas. I do have 4.10s and MT ET Streets and they
help PLENTY!
I run 12.5@110 pretty consistent, with 2.0 (crap!) 60 fts. I am happy knowing that with improvment, it'll be a 12.0 flat or better. If you have the 3.31s.. swap them out asap! They suck! Ditto on the stock torque converter too!
It's a vacuum based bypass set up, so you may want to check all your vacuum lines going from the bypass valves and make sure they aren't pinched or kinked. Where is your IAT sensor located?? I see you have the FRPP intake manifold.. they set up your KB BAP kinda weird, maybe they didn't even relocate the IAT sensor lol
Last edited by stealth_GT; 10-07-2011 at 02:49 AM.
10-07-2011, 02:58 AM
#20
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Pole
Posts: 6,716
I'd expect the car to at least be close to, or match the MPH (112-116 MPH) of a 2007-2009 GT500 since they are outputting 500 HP @ the crank, which should end up around 425 RWHP. The car is missing that mark pretty substantially (108.91 MPH).
I think dialed in, this car should be running more like a 12.5 with a 2.0 60' @ 112-116... but maybe that isn't realistic? My full setup is at the end of this post.
2006 Mustang GT Automatic
Novi 2200 H.O. Supercharger
Ford Racing 3v Intake Manifold
Kooks LT Headers
Kooks Catted X-Pipe
Pypes Mid Muffler System (catback)
Spohn Lower Control Arms
07-08 GT500's are more like 455-465 whp if I am not mistaken...