Is 500 RWHP possible naturally aspirated?
02-05-2012, 01:28 PM
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Alabama (Birmingham)
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Is 500 RWHP possible naturally aspirated?
Hi all, new to this forum, and good to be back in a mustang!
I have had 7 ford products including a mod motor t-bird, an SVT contour, several trucks, a new edge GT mustang and now this coyote powered GT. I am loving the power and potential of this new mustang.
Inspired by the high revving 302 race mills made famous in ford's road racing heritage and by recent success ford/roush is enjoying in sportscar racing. I envision a naturally aspirated, 7500 rpm top end street mill that can still attain 20+ mpg. I'd like it to be durable enough for the occasional track day and daily driver duties. I'd like to use stock bottom end and internals and keep the displacement the same.
Based based on forced induction options that easily blow by 600 hp, it seems like the coyote bottom end can handle the power. But can it breathe efficiently enough on its own to crack 500 HP?
I was wanting to know opinions on if the coyote platform can support enough air volume and velocity to attain specific output north of 100 hp/liter and still be reliable for daily driver status? Would be particularly interested in anyone has done something similar with the coyote platform.
I have had 7 ford products including a mod motor t-bird, an SVT contour, several trucks, a new edge GT mustang and now this coyote powered GT. I am loving the power and potential of this new mustang.
Inspired by the high revving 302 race mills made famous in ford's road racing heritage and by recent success ford/roush is enjoying in sportscar racing. I envision a naturally aspirated, 7500 rpm top end street mill that can still attain 20+ mpg. I'd like it to be durable enough for the occasional track day and daily driver duties. I'd like to use stock bottom end and internals and keep the displacement the same.
Based based on forced induction options that easily blow by 600 hp, it seems like the coyote bottom end can handle the power. But can it breathe efficiently enough on its own to crack 500 HP?
I was wanting to know opinions on if the coyote platform can support enough air volume and velocity to attain specific output north of 100 hp/liter and still be reliable for daily driver status? Would be particularly interested in anyone has done something similar with the coyote platform.
02-05-2012, 01:45 PM
#2
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Baytown, TX
Posts: 3,115
well from this
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=11829
it looks that the normal coyote doesn't go to 7500 and from this
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=12865
it looks that the boss model has forged internals and peak HP at 7400
I would guess that you might have to do some internal work to reliabily do 500HP and that it might be possible
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=11829
it looks that the normal coyote doesn't go to 7500 and from this
http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...KeyField=12865
it looks that the boss model has forged internals and peak HP at 7400
I would guess that you might have to do some internal work to reliabily do 500HP and that it might be possible
02-05-2012, 01:54 PM
#3
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: WA
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I've seen dynos from cars that have done full bolt ons and a tune in the middle 400s. I haven't really seen anything with a cam or any other internal work done.. it may be possible, I'd be interested to see if you come across anything, please share 
02-05-2012, 01:54 PM
#4
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Well 7500 I guess is a target, obviously if the power output could be achieved with lower redline, all the better for reliability. 
Seems like the coyote was well tested, the bottom end seems to be much stronger than previous 32 valve mod motors...would be curious about valve float when spinning th motor that high, and balance inside given the fairly long stroke (11 to 1 compression right?)
but with FRPP (not to mention so many other kits out there) putting two supercharger packages out, both over 500 (one over 600) seems like the need for forged internals wouldn't necessarily be absolute. I am more curious about the top end of the motor and what kind of flow can be achieved to move the kind of air and create the kind of efficiency needed to move higher.
Thoughts?
Seems like the coyote was well tested, the bottom end seems to be much stronger than previous 32 valve mod motors...would be curious about valve float when spinning th motor that high, and balance inside given the fairly long stroke (11 to 1 compression right?)
but with FRPP (not to mention so many other kits out there) putting two supercharger packages out, both over 500 (one over 600) seems like the need for forged internals wouldn't necessarily be absolute. I am more curious about the top end of the motor and what kind of flow can be achieved to move the kind of air and create the kind of efficiency needed to move higher.
Thoughts?
02-05-2012, 04:41 PM
#5
I must ask, just to be certain, when you shoot for 500, do you mean 500 BHP at the crank, or do you mean at the wheels?
If you mean at the crank, I believe it is very easy to reach 500 BHP with just bolt-ons and no FI or nitrous.
Guys have hit aanywhere from 460-480 at the wheels, which means at the crank, they were making at least 500 BHP.
Their mods: long tubes, x-pipe, cat delete, CAI, intake (like the Boss 302 manifold), cams, and a couple more things I cannot remember.
Oh, and they sacrificed the over 20MPG figure
If you mean at the crank, I believe it is very easy to reach 500 BHP with just bolt-ons and no FI or nitrous.
Guys have hit aanywhere from 460-480 at the wheels, which means at the crank, they were making at least 500 BHP.
Their mods: long tubes, x-pipe, cat delete, CAI, intake (like the Boss 302 manifold), cams, and a couple more things I cannot remember.
Oh, and they sacrificed the over 20MPG figure
02-05-2012, 07:07 PM
#7
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,792
I must ask, just to be certain, when you shoot for 500, do you mean 500 BHP at the crank, or do you mean at the wheels?
If you mean at the crank, I believe it is very easy to reach 500 BHP with just bolt-ons and no FI or nitrous.
Guys have hit aanywhere from 460-480 at the wheels, which means at the crank, they were making at least 500 BHP.
Their mods: long tubes, x-pipe, cat delete, CAI, intake (like the Boss 302 manifold), cams, and a couple more things I cannot remember.
Oh, and they sacrificed the over 20MPG figure
If you mean at the crank, I believe it is very easy to reach 500 BHP with just bolt-ons and no FI or nitrous.
Guys have hit aanywhere from 460-480 at the wheels, which means at the crank, they were making at least 500 BHP.
Their mods: long tubes, x-pipe, cat delete, CAI, intake (like the Boss 302 manifold), cams, and a couple more things I cannot remember.
Oh, and they sacrificed the over 20MPG figure
02-05-2012, 07:53 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Alabama (Birmingham)
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well mainly I am curious to find out where the naturally aspirated, stock bottom end frontier is. I am curious if cam development and/or good old fashioned head work has gotten off the ground on the coyote. I have to believe that the heads are pretty efficient given the gains from boost.
Of course, one risk with going NA high power is I am sure it will make for a pretty peaky power band....maybe even too peaky for the street.
Has anyone heard about head work or gains on cams/head/port work on the coyote?
I saw some cams out there but they limit the cam phasing as I understand. It would be cool to develop some naturally aspirated tech....
Pascal the cammer in the FR500GT is what I was thinking about when I started thinking about this...but maybe I just got hypnotized by watching the roush mustangs beat the bimmers in the continental series yesterday.
Of course, one risk with going NA high power is I am sure it will make for a pretty peaky power band....maybe even too peaky for the street.
Has anyone heard about head work or gains on cams/head/port work on the coyote?
I saw some cams out there but they limit the cam phasing as I understand. It would be cool to develop some naturally aspirated tech....
Pascal the cammer in the FR500GT is what I was thinking about when I started thinking about this...but maybe I just got hypnotized by watching the roush mustangs beat the bimmers in the continental series yesterday.
02-05-2012, 08:06 PM
#10
S197 Section Modder-ator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando FL
Posts: 13,373
Roush/Yates prepared mill: 625 ponies and stays together in a 24hr race.
We have to yank it out after about 32 hours no matter how good it still runs
