lizard96

i bought some staggerd's from American Muscle, and no need to change suspension. but i will agree with one post, the car sits a little high with the 19's. the front wheel well is more full with tire than the rear end wheel well....and it makes it look a bit odd to some people

Norm Peterson

I guess if you don't mind having more understeer than Ford intended, or if you never drive through the corners hard enough for it to matter you wouldn't "need" to.

That more understeer makes it a little harder to get the car to spin out is probably a good thing in many peoples' cases even if that means it's a little harder to get the thing to turn in the first place.


Norm

Andy13186

what do you think about less understeer (squared setup) vs less oversteer (staggered) ?

oversteer is controllable with throttle and you can go from understeering to oversteering with some throttle with rwd cars (with a decent differential) so i dont see why it makes a big diff

although, i do guess wider front rims and tires wouldnt hurt but still, as wide as possible is best imo and the rear can fit wider rims and tires without issue

UPRSharad

Looks good.

GhostStrykre

thanks for the compliments!

i went with 18 inch wheels.

255/45/18 in the front
285/40/18 in the rear

when i opened the box to the front tires i thought they were the 285s. then when i read the number i crapped my pants. then i opened the box with the actual 285s and just laughed to myself with delight. i really am enjoying these. im kinda glad i stuck with 18s cuz it just seems right to me. 19s would work, but i dunno if they were worth the extra price and hassle of finding fitting tires. i dig these 18s a lot.

Norm Peterson

Ultimately, this is exactly what counts the most, that you're really happy with your choice. Enjoy!


Norm

Norm Peterson

Understeer is inherently stable, and all you're doing by dialing out some of it is making the car a little more willing to turn.

Oversteer involves having to deal with vehicle response that's some amount greater than what you asked for (and you then have to dial something out of your control inputs). By definition, this is not a stable situation, even though mild levels are controllable without too much effort.

That you have to stay on top of this means that an oversteerish car is less relaxing to drive and somewhat more likely to give you a seat-puckering moment or two if you get careless or sloppy.

It also means that you have to delay adding throttle on corner exit. If you're thinking of adding more rear tire just to allow more rapid and earlier throttle, you're using the tires to crutch a driving issue, and you'll be giving up more on corner entry and mid-corner than you gain by trying to fix mechanically what the driver shouldn't be doing in the first place. Much better drivers than I have found this to be the case.


What you're describing here is a car that is inherently a mild understeer car that you're forcing into understeer by placing enough total demand on the rear tires to make their total slip picture "loose".

An inherently oversteerish car is one that at some cornering speed has no margin for doing anything with the throttle. If you ease off, the tail goes light, loses total grip, and wants to come around on you. If you add throttle, the total rear tire traction demands of cornering plus acceleration makes the rear go loose directly.

At low speeds, such as at a tight autocross layout, this could conceivably be a faster setup - and would probably be somewhat vehicle-specific. But it would be too nervous for either hard street driving or a road course open-tracking session. I've artificially pushed a car to behave like this, and it is not fun.


Good handling is all about "balance". Try to think in terms of how much car weight is working on each mm of tire and not on what it looks like.

I know which forum I'm on, but I want you to forget what Ford is choosing for wheel and tire setups on the Boss and GT500 for a moment and really pay attention to the existing 1LE Camaros and the just-announced Z/28. Those cars come with "square" tire sizes because they're faster around a road course that way. During its development, the 1LE was faster with the 285/35's all around than it was with the 285/305 staggered setup of the ZL1. I'm not trying to be a Camaro flag-waver here, but you do have to keep in mind the performances that the 1LE has been putting down.

Less than one second separates the lap times, where the GT500 pulls over 12 mph more peak speed, so the 1LE has to be making up for well over 100 HP with handling.

I will note that the 1LE uses a 1" wheel width "stagger", likely for satisfying internal corporate standards requiring at least "X" amount of limit understeer as much as for the wheel sizes themselves being part of the ZL-1 package and readily available. The hardcore track day intended Z/28 uses only half an inch wheel width stagger (which should tell you something).


If you'd rather keep the comparisons just within the world of Mustangs, Terry Fair experimented very briefly with a staggered setup . . . and went slower with noticeably more "push". Nor have I ever read or heard where Sam Strano recommended a staggered arrangement.


Norm

beerman616

So, in general it sounds like the square set-up should give you better, or maybe more predictable handling? I'm planning on purchasing wheels/tires this summer, and I've been reading all the posts about squared vs. staggered. I'm still not sure which one is better.

CMcNam

If you're doing anything other than a straight line, you'll want square for better handling, as illustrated by Mr. Peterson's post.

Norm Peterson

Keep in mind that "better" is still subject to individual preferences.

In general, a car with a square setup will drive like it's a little lighter than it would feel with a staggered setup. Compared another way, if you're used to a square setup, cornering response with a staggered arrangement might feel like your front tires were both down a few psi but without the ride quality going all soft and squishy as well. In most normal driving, these are "feel" things that not everybody notices or recognizes for what they are. You do have to be driving pretty hard for there to be measurable differences in performance.


Norm