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do i need alignment after adj phb?

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Old 04-10-2014, 11:35 AM   #1
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Default do i need alignment after adj phb?

Im installing a whiteline adj phb on a stock car just to correct my factory rear axle offset, also is lock tight neccessary?
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Old 04-10-2014, 11:42 AM   #2
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Don't need an alignment. However, a plumb-bob and a ruler will help you make sure you are centered in the rear. As far as Loctite, no idea. I didn't used in on my J&M adjustable. Had it on for about 6 months torqued down, hasn't moved.
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Old 04-10-2014, 01:41 PM   #3
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im doing the install but the passenger side panhard bar is not coming out
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Old 04-10-2014, 02:26 PM   #4
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Loosen the bolt above it and it should drop right out. No need for an alignment afterwards, just center it yourself as mentioned and you're good.
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Old 04-10-2014, 03:24 PM   #5
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These guys are right^^^ No need for an alignment when adjusting the panhard bar. No need for loctite either. Just make sure the bolts are snugged up firmly!

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Old 04-10-2014, 05:37 PM   #6
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Loosen the bolt above it and it should drop right out. No need for an alignment afterwards, just center it yourself as mentioned and you're good.
I was watching bmr installation video and others never mention about lossening the brace bar mount. Anyways I finally got it out ealier by wacking it. Its weird the passenger side doesnt drop rather tight compared to the driver side when you take the bolt out. I had trouble putting it in and out, seems like the chassis frame mount gap is too narrow and had to bang it in.
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Old 04-10-2014, 06:49 PM   #7
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Just took it out for a drive and notice my car goes slightly to the left now.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:39 AM   #8
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I used loctite on mine....just an added precaution that the jam nuts won't back off.

You shouldn't be having, or noticing any pulling to either side. Make sure that you are driving down a completely level road.
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Old 04-11-2014, 11:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13'GT Black View Post
I was watching bmr installation video and others never mention about lossening the brace bar mount. Anyways I finally got it out ealier by wacking it. Its weird the passenger side doesnt drop rather tight compared to the driver side when you take the bolt out. I had trouble putting it in and out, seems like the chassis frame mount gap is too narrow and had to bang it in.
If you don't loosen it, the bolt for the PHB brace is still squeezing that bracket together a little, which is making it seem like the gap is too narrow. The axle-side bracket only has the PHB bolt, so when that's out there aren't any other fasteners squeezing that bracket together.

Did you measure your axle centering with the car weight fully on all four wheels? The LCAs are not quite parallel, so any axle offset at least theoretically affects your axle's thrust angle and will cause you to have to steer it a tiny bit to stay straight. If this is the case, and you did not touch any other rear suspension fasteners or components, your axle is probably a little too far to the right.


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Old 04-11-2014, 11:53 AM   #10
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takes time and patients to get it spot on aswell..makes a big difference though to the cars feel..took me many goes untill i had my wheels mm perfectly centred
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
If you don't loosen it, the bolt for the PHB brace is still squeezing that bracket together a little, which is making it seem like the gap is too narrow. The axle-side bracket only has the PHB bolt, so when that's out there aren't any other fasteners squeezing that bracket together.

Did you measure your axle centering with the car weight fully on all four wheels? The LCAs are not quite parallel, so any axle offset at least theoretically affects your axle's thrust angle and will cause you to have to steer it a tiny bit to stay straight. If this is the case, and you did not touch any other rear suspension fasteners or components, your axle is probably a little too far to the right.


Norm
I didnt know so i force it in, did scrap alittle mental off the phb end and chassis mount when i force it in. I should be okay. My thrust before was -.18 and i was told by american muscle to get a panhard bar to fix the rear axle offset which i did. I had to make about 1/4 of an inch adjustment on the panhard bar. If anything it should of help, i guess ill need to visit an alignment specialist.

Also i wanted to add that in instruction it says to "It is important to adjust both sides equally while maintaining the spacing difference (the long threaded end should be roughly
35mm longer than the short end)"

what do they mean by maintaining equal space difference?

Last edited by 13'GT Black; 04-12-2014 at 12:14 AM.
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Old 04-12-2014, 01:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13'GT Black View Post
I was watching bmr installation video and others never mention about lossening the brace bar mount. Anyways I finally got it out ealier by wacking it. Its weird the passenger side doesnt drop rather tight compared to the driver side when you take the bolt out. I had trouble putting it in and out, seems like the chassis frame mount gap is too narrow and had to bang it in.
I slide it in from above. Trying to go in or out from the bottom of the bracket is tight, if that makes sense.
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Old 04-13-2014, 12:51 AM   #13
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You take it to an alignment shop, they wont know what to do! ..unless someone there is familiar with these cars and about an adjustable panhard...
there is NOTHING to align.
There is ADJUSTMENT, that as described above, can easily be done.

The car won't pull one way or another as a result of this; has nothing to do with steering.
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Old 04-13-2014, 07:04 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13'GT Black View Post
I didnt know so i force it in, did scrap alittle mental off the phb end and chassis mount when i force it in. I should be okay. My thrust before was -.18 and i was told by american muscle to get a panhard bar to fix the rear axle offset which i did. I had to make about 1/4 of an inch adjustment on the panhard bar. If anything it should of help, i guess ill need to visit an alignment specialist.

Also i wanted to add that in instruction it says to "It is important to adjust both sides equally while maintaining the spacing difference (the long threaded end should be roughly
35mm longer than the short end)"

what do they mean by maintaining equal space difference?
I haven't read their installation instructions, but I think they're trying to ensure that you don't end up with not enough threads engaged anywhere.


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Old 04-13-2014, 10:48 AM   #15
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Im a newbie when it comes to cars, theres still much to be learned. I find it weird when people says no alignment needed when installing these phb. Doesnt moving phb side to side change thrust point?accuracy going off by wheel well? wouldnt adjusting it on an alignment machine give you the closest 0 thrust.

Norm regarding to the installation instruction that was only part that threw me off. the longer end which is passenger side has same amount thread after adjsuting as driver side.
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Old 04-14-2014, 12:20 AM   #16
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As long as you get it adjusted, just tighten the jam nuts and lock it all down!
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Old 04-14-2014, 07:31 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 13'GT Black View Post
Im a newbie when it comes to cars, theres still much to be learned. I find it weird when people says no alignment needed when installing these phb. Doesnt moving phb side to side change thrust point?accuracy going off by wheel well? wouldnt adjusting it on an alignment machine give you the closest 0 thrust.

Norm regarding to the installation instruction that was only part that threw me off. the longer end which is passenger side has same amount thread after adjsuting as driver side.
I don't think it's common for people to have to tweak thrust angle when all they've done is swap in an aftermarket PHB and adjust it, but then again it could come down to how sensitive the individual is for a slightly off-centered steering wheel vs the desire to get the axle visually centered.

Do the bushings in your OE PHB look distorted in any way?


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Old 04-14-2014, 10:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
I don't think it's common for people to have to tweak thrust angle when all they've done is swap in an aftermarket PHB and adjust it, but then again it could come down to how sensitive the individual is for a slightly off-centered steering wheel vs the desire to get the axle visually centered.

Do the bushings in your OE PHB look distorted in any way?


Norm
oe phb bushing looks fine, why? I work 11 hours a day and tomorrow is my day off, i can finally take it in for alignment. I just find it odd the new phb didnt make my -.18 thrust with oe better, rather worse now. Negative thrust means back wheels are slightly facing left, since i move my new phb more to the right wouldnt that make it better and not worse. bummer
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Old 04-15-2014, 07:14 AM   #19
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I'm looking at bushing deterioration as a possible cause of thrust angle error you had before that might have gone away with the new PHB's bushings/sphericals. I also suspect this as a possible explanation for why people seem to find far more axle shift when they lower their cars than can be explained by triangle geometry alone.

The reference I found ( http://www.ttsroadsport.com/4_wheel_...t_glossary.asp ) differs on sign convention, and according to this a negative thrust angle would be consistent with the car trying to drift to the left (until you correct that by steering to the right).

Quote:
A positive thrust angle is one that points to the left.
A negative thrust line is one that points to the right.

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Old 04-15-2014, 05:37 PM   #20
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Good news, thrust is not out of whack rather its now -.03 way better than before. It was previous toe setting that upset the steering.

UPDATE* I had to revist tire kingdom ealier due to steering wheel slightly sitting left while driving striaght down the road. He went under and adjusted the toe setting on both side but he didnt have the reflector on the wheels. He said it wasnt neccessary and sure it would not mess up my spec. Should i be worried? Hes a very knowledgeable alignment specilist from what i can tell and car drives striaght.

Bad news, rear tire slightly cupped, not by shock so they think its the car characteristic or lack of rotation in 10k miles since purchase lol

Last edited by 13'GT Black; 04-15-2014 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 04-15-2014, 05:37 PM
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