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Old 05-03-2014, 12:31 AM   #1
krazykevin
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Default Brake Fade

I decided to experiment some and did a few 100 to ~2MPH brake tests about as fast as I could stop. After the first stop, It would no longer reach the point of anti-locking, though it still stopped surprisingly quick. I do have slightly wide (275) performance tires in the front that I know will contribute to this.

If my only racing currently is auto-cross and drag strip, what would upgrading help ?

If I did (these are 3 seperate options):
1.better pads and fluid
2.take off brembos
3.open to suggestions
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Old 05-03-2014, 02:22 PM   #2
808muscle
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Pads, Hawk or EBC
Stainless Steel lines, I saw the best results from this mod.
Rotors, some nice vented/slotted ones will help but not as much as SS lines and pads.
Good fluid is key to any racing application.

If your on a budget get the SS lines and pads.
I drag my car a lot, and this setup has been a great uprade.
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Old 05-03-2014, 09:04 PM   #3
wcgman
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First upgrade I'd do would be the ss lines, then the pads and if not happy at that point, keep going. Good thing you're looking at stopping power. Most add power without thinking too much about what it takes to counteract that force.
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Old 05-04-2014, 01:39 PM   #4
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+1 with 808 and wcg, the bigger brakes are going to get you to stop faster, but the fade is all about the fluid and the lines. Granted Brembos will make a difference as well, but still, a couple hundo or a couple grand.
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Old 05-04-2014, 07:31 PM   #5
Norm Peterson
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Pads and fluid first, because those are the places where fade lives. Better lines may improve pedal feel, but can't improve fade resistance.

There is a caveat regarding better pads, and that involves your own personal tolerance for things like less effective cold bite, more brake dust, more noise, and greater rotor wear. Those are the typical side effects of pads that have better warm to hot bite and higher temperature capability. If you can live with that, entry level track pads such as Carbotech's XP8 or Hawk's HP+ are at least marginally streetable. If not, then maybe Carbotech's 1521 or maybe AX6, or Hawk's HPS would be better choices.


ATE Amber fluid will be good enough for your uses - it's good enough to hold up under at least entry-level road course 30 minute HPDE track sessions with stockish power and running on street tires.


Slotted rotors seem to resist getting scored by grit getting trapped between them and the pads, which is a decent street advantage, and definitely good enough for the uses you describe. But I'd rather see you on plain rotors for anything beyond introductory road course HPDE use.


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Old 05-04-2014, 09:13 PM   #6
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Thanks for the feedback, I think Im going to try pads and fluid first and re-evaluate how I like it there.
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Old 05-05-2014, 06:48 AM   #7
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Let us know your results please. Interested in seeing how it works out.
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Old 05-05-2014, 02:39 PM   #8
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Good to know, you def. don't want to deal with brake fade especially hauling ***. I have never experienced it before until we went on a spirited mountain run and it scared the **** out of me.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:36 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Pads and fluid first, because those are the places where fade lives. Better lines may improve pedal feel, but can't improve fade resistance.

There is a caveat regarding better pads, and that involves your own personal tolerance for things like less effective cold bite, more brake dust, more noise, and greater rotor wear. Those are the typical side effects of pads that have better warm to hot bite and higher temperature capability. If you can live with that, entry level track pads such as Carbotech's XP8 or Hawk's HP+ are at least marginally streetable. If not, then maybe Carbotech's 1521 or maybe AX6, or Hawk's HPS would be better choices.


ATE Amber fluid will be good enough for your uses - it's good enough to hold up under at least entry-level road course 30 minute HPDE track sessions with stockish power and running on street tires.


Slotted rotors seem to resist getting scored by grit getting trapped between them and the pads, which is a decent street advantage, and definitely good enough for the uses you describe. But I'd rather see you on plain rotors for anything beyond introductory road course HPDE use.


Norm
What about the use of ceramics pads? While they still suffer from less bite when cold, They have less dust than OEM type pads, better bite when hot and they do very well to resist brake fade. Although I also have DOT 4 fluid in my system instead of the DOT 3 the OEM uses which also contributes to the less fade.

Also, way less dust and noise than OEM types (semi metallic).

I've used ceramics for DD on all of our cars when replacing the stockers and have never looked back.
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Old 05-05-2014, 03:38 PM   #10
krazykevin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2005Redfire6 View Post
Good to know, you def. don't want to deal with brake fade especially hauling ***. I have never experienced it before until we went on a spirited mountain run and it scared the **** out of me.
I was expecting it; I truly went out to brake until they started fading so that I would know the progression of how the pedal would start to feel, and it was still sketchy. It also happened a lot sooner than I expected.
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