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lopey idle

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Old 05-04-2014, 07:39 PM   #1
rogan01
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Default lopey idle

What is lopey idle and why is it good - or bad?

E.g the new frpp track key is supposed to allow this.
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Old 05-04-2014, 08:50 PM   #2
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back in the day (like, way back[/i]) having a V8 with a lopey idle meant you had a hot camshaft (long duration/overlap) in it. now that we have variable cam timing, it's mostly for show.
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Old 05-04-2014, 10:03 PM   #3
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Thanks but what exactly is it? Is it basically a rough idle? Is there a chance of stalling if idle drops too much?
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Old 05-05-2014, 10:54 AM   #4
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Sounds like a problem? Based on searching it. Still don't know what it actually is though... Why would the track key let you set this rough idle on purpose? Thinking not much knowledge out on this...
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Old 05-05-2014, 11:18 AM   #5
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Its exactly what it sounds like. A rougher sounding idle instead of smooth. Its more sporadic sounding. Its mostly for sound nowadays. Its sounds like old school muscle. Its not a problem. I have aftermarket cams installed that give my 07 lope. Here is a clip of a 2013 w/ track key engaging the lopey idle.

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Old 05-05-2014, 12:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffk_pennywise View Post
Its exactly what it sounds like. A rougher sounding idle instead of smooth. Its more sporadic sounding. Its mostly for sound nowadays. Its sounds like old school muscle. Its not a problem. I have aftermarket cams installed that give my 07 lope. Here is a clip of a 2013 w/ track key engaging the lopey idle.

Thank you sir. Excellent!
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:43 PM   #7
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NP. I should have added that I don't know if there's a performance benefit using the track key or not, but with aftermarket cams that add lope, the driving force behind installing them isn't the sound but the power addition. The sound is icing on cake.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ffk_pennywise View Post
NP. I should have added that I don't know if there's a performance benefit using the track key or not, but with aftermarket cams that add lope, the driving force behind installing them isn't the sound but the power addition. The sound is icing on cake.
I purchased a 2014 and frrp is releasing a track key like the one for the boss. Does other tune things but the idle is one. Have not heard of anyone that has it yet or reviews but sounds good and should be ford approved. Thanks again for your kind help and the video. Hoping it is like that.
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Old 05-06-2014, 06:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogan01 View Post
Thanks but what exactly is it? Is it basically a rough idle? Is there a chance of stalling if idle drops too much?
The 5.0L engine in the 11+ Mustangs uses a newer technology called Ti-VCT Twin Independent Variable Cam Timing.
Here's an interesting article on the inner workings of the newer 3.7 & 5.0 engines

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/2011...echnology.html

What the track key does (as well as aftermarket tuners) is reprogram the PCM for more spirited driving, different, more aggressive shift points, etc.

Unique to the Ti-VCT technology, tuners are able to overlap the timing on the oem cams, thus producing the "lope" that you hear in the previous video. Older 4v and 3v engines are forced to replace the cams to produce the same effect, since the cams are dependent on working together.

There is no real gain from the overlap (also called a ghost cam) on the 11+ it's all for the "cool factor". Whereas replacing the cams on the older engines will produce HP gains.

Ford Racing does sell the BOSS 302 Intake and Exhaust cams which will give you a slight bump in power...but why spend the $1000 for them when you can have the same sound for $250 =)
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:16 AM   #10
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The idle lope comes from changing the duration of intake and exhaust valve overlap, usually so that the intake valve stays open a little longer and or the exhaust valve opens earlier. That's easy to do on a the 5.0 (with the computer) because the intake and exhaust cams are separate. On a pushrod engine, there's only one cam that controls all of the intake and exhaust valves, so the cam has to be ground to certain specs to get that type of idle, and once installed, the only way you can change it is to change the cam.

There are two ways you can get a lope in your idle - change the cams, and/or apply a "ghost cam" tune. If you're only after the sound, get the tune. If you want an actual boost in power, get the cams.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:26 AM   #11
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Thanks for the great info. Learn something all the time here!
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:52 AM   #12
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A lot of the cams offered I know for the 3V are for sound. IE. Hot rod cams, thumpr cams, detroit rockers, etc. They do add a little bit of power though due to the slightly higher lift. There are cams out there that have a rough idle but make more power than the popular cams like mentioned above. These cams require stiffer springs, retainers, cam phasers/lockouts too. An example is the Stage 2 Comp. 127500 cam.
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Old 05-06-2014, 01:21 PM   #13
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Wow, I had no idea the trackey would do that. Learn something new every day!

Cams seem to be a hot topic among some, but I'd say that the previously listed FRPP cams and similar are far from being a for sound only mod. The power they give isn't huge, but for <$800 (especially if you have LTs and an intake), it's pretty much on par for most bolt ons.

Spending $500 on axle backs, now that is just for sound, and yet that's not an issue to anyone, but spend a little more than that and get 20 or so HP AND sound? I don't see the problem there. The issue with cams that make more power is that they aren't nearly as streetable and end up costing a lot more once you do all the supporting mods. Speaking of cost though, if you're paying to have cams installed then the power to cost ratio ends up a little off, but I'll take the lope AND 20 HP for $800, sure.
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Old 05-06-2014, 04:44 PM   #14
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I uploaded this vid of mine with the ghost cam tune

Current mods:
Stainless Works LT Headers, Hi-Flow catted x-pipe, Pypes super system exhaust (3in from x-pipe back)

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Old 05-07-2014, 11:19 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steel pony View Post
Ford Racing does sell the BOSS 302 Intake and Exhaust cams which will give you a slight bump in power...but why spend the $1000 for them when you can have the same sound for $250 =)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimmonstx View Post
There are two ways you can get a lope in your idle - change the cams, and/or apply a "ghost cam" tune. If you're only after the sound, get the tune. If you want an actual boost in power, get the cams.
With the 5.0, the only way you can add a lopey idle is to get a ghost tune either from Lund, AED, or Bama. I know Steeda used to have their own ghost cam tune but I believe they discontinued it.

I certainly wouldn't use it as a DD though, you sacrifice some power for the lopey idle and a lot of the tuners run the idle a little bit rich so you will certainly get a smell of unburnt gas coming from your car and you should really be running an O/R pipe if you want to run one of these tunes. Low speed driveability seems to be a hit or miss thing across all tunes though.

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Wow, I had no idea the trackey would do that. Learn something new every day!

Cams seem to be a hot topic among some, but I'd say that the previously listed FRPP cams and similar are far from being a for sound only mod. The power they give isn't huge, but for <$800 (especially if you have LTs and an intake), it's pretty much on par for most bolt ons.

Spending $500 on axle backs, now that is just for sound, and yet that's not an issue to anyone, but spend a little more than that and get 20 or so HP AND sound? I don't see the problem there. The issue with cams that make more power is that they aren't nearly as streetable and end up costing a lot more once you do all the supporting mods. Speaking of cost though, if you're paying to have cams installed then the power to cost ratio ends up a little off, but I'll take the lope AND 20 HP for $800, sure.
The thing is with the Hot Rods, Thumpers, and Detroit Rockers, they were ground specifically to create a lope and as a side benefit they also make power which IMO is why they are known as "sound only" cams. Now when you compare those with say the 127400/500/600 cams or their equivalents from Lunati or Fox Racing etc., they will show increased power because they were made specifically to make power especially at certain RPM's and some have the side benefit to creating a lope. I think that is why the sound only group is classified as such.
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:31 PM   #16
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From the factory, the new 5.0 has a nice hint of lope already. It really comes out when you upgrade from the nearly silent stock exhaust. If you let the car idle and just sit down next to one of the mufflers.. you can hear how interesting this engine really is. Most people like listening to children play and birds sing.. but getting more familiar with your car is just as appealing to me
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Old 05-08-2014, 07:49 AM   #17
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Quote:
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The thing is with the Hot Rods, Thumpers, and Detroit Rockers, they were ground specifically to create a lope and as a side benefit they also make power which IMO is why they are known as "sound only" cams. Now when you compare those with say the 127400/500/600 cams or their equivalents from Lunati or Fox Racing etc., they will show increased power because they were made specifically to make power especially at certain RPM's and some have the side benefit to creating a lope. I think that is why the sound only group is classified as such.
Except that they STILL aren't sound only, being that they add power, nor were they designed for sound only either. They were designed to be drop in replacements that require no other modifications, aka NSR cams, so yes, they aren't as aggressive in power as other grinds, and yes, they were made to sound good as well, but to say they were designed for sound only is ridiculous.

For me, the drivability of an NSR cam would make it the only choice for a DD. If you've got a weekend car or race car, then by all means spend a little more and go for a more aggressive grind, springs, etc.
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steel pony View Post
I uploaded this vid of mine with the ghost cam tune

Current mods:
Stainless Works LT Headers, Hi-Flow catted x-pipe, Pypes super system exhaust (3in from x-pipe back)

Bandit Ghost Cam - YouTube

Thought a ghost cam tune would burn your cats up since it's running richer......?
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Old 05-08-2014, 06:09 PM
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