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Frustration: No good power to be had after a tune (Short of FI & Internals)???

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Old 08-19-2014, 11:14 PM   #1
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Default Frustration: No good power to be had after a tune (Short of FI & Internals)???

This is a correct me if I am wrong kind of post. Keep in mind, my goal is to have a heck of a fun DD without going FI. I do not drag race, and about as serious as the car will ever get in that respect is autoX. All I want to do is have a better than stock NA GT. Maybe even frustrate some investment banker friends who are convinced no Mustang could ever hang with their Aston.

I asked what CAI + Tune would be a good bet. I was told Tunes there are in plenty and they are worth it, but the CAI is a waste of coin without supporting mods for better flow throughout the top end of the engine.

I researched mods throughout the top end. Notably, the Boss and CJ complete setups (Intake, TB, Manifold). I found that neither would be worth it because you don't see real benefits until 6800+ RPM. I have an intense interest in bolt ons, but 0 and I mean 0 desire to open the engine and do cams, valves & springs, etc. And I care about not having to buy a new motor, so the idea of running above the factory redline- which I believe is there for a reason- scares me. So, the bottom line is that since I am unwilling to endanger my motor by running above the redline and I am unwilling to crack the engine to raise the redline, both of these are very much no-gos. Plus, I am under the impression that the CJ kit is not DD friendly, and thats a problem for me.

So we are back to square one- tune is good. CAI + Tune = worthless CAI w/o support mods. I wonder how a CAI+ Tune + upgraded TB would do vs the tune alone on the stock manifold & airbox.

Yes, I know LTs are a great idea. However, I need to be able to pass emissions testing with functioning cats, so offroad X or H is a no-go. I've also read that high flow cats are 50/50 odds on whether they will operate with enough efficiency to pass emissions or not.

At the end of the day, I don't know whether to be mad at Ford for making a helluva car with very little lacking or mad that the little imperfections aren't there so I can turn wrenches and spend quality time with my baby.
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Old 08-20-2014, 01:21 AM   #2
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then the best bang for the buck considering you don't want to do FI or internal mods would be installing a Nitrous Oxide System IMO. I am unsure if a tune would be required but it probably wouldn't hurt
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:19 AM   #3
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Just get a good tune with the stock true CAI and you'll be happy.
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Old 08-20-2014, 06:31 AM   #4
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Quote:
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then the best bang for the buck considering you don't want to do FI or internal mods would be installing a Nitrous Oxide System IMO. I am unsure if a tune would be required but it probably wouldn't hurt
um, yes a tune would be required unless you don't mind cracking all of your pistons. Nitrous Oxide is N2O, under the heat of compression it breaks down releasing free diatomic oxygen (O2.) With all that extra oxygen you MUST add more fuel to keep the air:fuel ratio correct or else you'll suffer detonation and blow up the engine.
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Old 08-20-2014, 11:27 AM   #5
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There are some O/R set-ups, such as the JBA and I believe Pypes as well, that offer mid-pipes with the optional "legs" so you can choose to have the cats on or off.

Don't think I've ever heard of "support mods" to go along with CAI & Tune. I don't think theres a downside at all with upgrading the stock airbox to a CAI. If you do choose to stay with the stock box, you do have a few choices. This lets you re-use the stock airbox, remains 50-state legal and requires no tune. This one is somewhat the same deal. As for TB's, coming from a V-6 Stang, I learned on here that TB's were pretty much just an expensive paper weight. Not sure if that changes in the V8 world, I'm sure someone can chime in. I've seen the CJ need a new TB, not sure about the BOSS manifold, but you're not going that route.

I'm almost in the same boat, I wanna mod this beast and squeeze every last horse as safely possible without going FI. On my lisr is a CAI/Tune, 3.73s and an aluminum driveshaft. Good luck to ya
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Old 08-20-2014, 02:40 PM   #6
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Gears. Or if you have an auto torque convertor
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:09 PM   #7
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Just to throw gas on the fire.

http://blog.americanmuscle.com/justi...t-car-stage-2/

Thoughts? I don't know how I feel about the claim he got 33.5 RWHP and only losing 5 lb/ft tq out of adding the mani and TB to an already tuned car with CAI. While (if you take the video at face value) he did lose peak torque, if you freeze it at just the right point (3:47) it looks like he gained torque between 2500-4000 RPM and then made more than stock after 4500. Also, some have claimed you need to run the motor to 8k rpm to get power- it looks like he started to gain HP at 5250 and carried strong gains of ~25 hp through to 7k.
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:30 PM   #8
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Also: Yes, he did do catless X. We will see what comes from LTs. And N2) is just something I have no interest in. Soz. Not for me.
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Old 08-21-2014, 06:52 AM   #9
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Take anything AM says with a grain of salt. A Boss Intake requires supporting mods and shift points of 7500-7600 to be effective.

You still haven't stated if your car is a manual or an auto.
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Old 08-21-2014, 07:15 AM   #10
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Manual w/ 3.73s.

And I am well aware that AMs primary interest is in selling parts, not providing top notch product reviews. If you read the article AM CLAIMS 45hp gain but I took a screenshot of the dyno charts in the vid and it shows plain as day peak hp gain was 33.

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Old 08-21-2014, 09:35 AM   #11
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There simply isn't a lot of options available to you with the restrictions you're dealing with here.

Any sort of intake work will have minimal or no gains without bumping rev limiter and/or doing a full exhaust upgrade as well.

Your one tangible upgrade is a tune. Nothing else within your limitations is going to provide a noticeable increase in power for the cost.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:37 PM   #12
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There simply isn't a lot of options available to you with the restrictions you're dealing with here.

Any sort of intake work will have minimal or no gains without bumping rev limiter and/or doing a full exhaust upgrade as well.

Your one tangible upgrade is a tune. Nothing else within your limitations is going to provide a noticeable increase in power for the cost.
All you have left is gears and a tune. Good luck.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stags View Post
This is a correct me if I am wrong kind of post. Keep in mind, my goal is to have a heck of a fun DD without going FI. I do not drag race, and about as serious as the car will ever get in that respect is autoX. All I want to do is have a better than stock NA GT. Maybe even frustrate some investment banker friends who are convinced no Mustang could ever hang with their Aston.
Then forget the power upgraded and focus on suspension upgrades. Doesn't matter if you have 1000hp or 100hp if you cant keep the tires from spinning and the car under control.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:48 PM   #14
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Then forget the power upgraded and focus on suspension upgrades. Doesn't matter if you have 1000hp or 100hp if you cant keep the tires from spinning and the car under control.
+1 for suspension. These cars improve drastically from bolt-on suspension mods done right.

You already have 3.73's which are the ideal gears for this car. Any taller and you will lose any effectiveness from 1st gear.
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Old 08-22-2014, 04:51 PM   #15
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I went from just tune, to intake+tune and noticed a difference.

other than that though, the power mods dont seem worthwhile so i went with suspension and wheels and tires. This makes the car well rounded and .. excellent imo.
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:53 PM   #16
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I see the issue. You don't realize your car makes more power and goes faster than all but the most exotic cars about 15 years ago. You younger guys (assuming you weren't old enough to drive 15 years ago) have no idea how nice it is to have 400+HP from the factory around $30k yet there seems to be no shortage of being unsatisfied about it around here. The first gen Viper made 400 HP and people considered it a monster.

Anyways, I agree you should get boost and be done with it.
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:53 PM
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