Question about gauges when going F/I
01-29-2015, 01:36 PM
#11
Sorry for all the questions guys, this is pretty new to me. I just want to get all the info that I can.
01-29-2015, 01:54 PM
#12
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 218
If it wasn't winter time I'd snap a short video of mine with my phone for you. Cruising around you're probably going to see it dance around. Its when you're at wide open throttle its going to peg a number and essentially hold it or move slightly but nothing drastic.
01-29-2015, 03:54 PM
#14
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: CO
Posts: 439
The sensor bung will need to be welded into the exhaust, preferably forward of the catalytic converter. There is no pre-existing bung on the factory exhaust, and you cannot simply replace one of the factory O2 sensors. On most new "V" engines, each bank of cylinders has its own catalytic converter, so you want to chose the exhaust bank that is most likely to experience a lean condition. This will be the bank of cylinders farthest from the fuel pump.
In closed loop (partial throttle or idle) operation it should read 14.7 +/- 0.2.
Under Open Loop (WOT or partial throttle with heavy load, long steady hill climbs can force an open loop situation even under part throttle) operation, a forced induction engine should be tuned to between 11- 12, but don't be surprised to see anything between 12-14.7 in a part throttle, open loop situation.
Under deceleration or coasting (closed throttle) I believe the free air calibration is something like 24.3 (don't quote me on that). Many gauges don't even go that high.
I'm going to catch some flack for saying this, but if your car is tuned and running properly, a wideband AFR gauge is just novelty unless you are racing or constantly at WOT. You will find out that when you get heavy on the skinny pedal, it will drop to 11.x. When you are just cruising, it will remain close to 14.7, and when you are coasting it, it will max out the gauge. It is a great tuning tool, and can be used as warning to avoid catastrophic failure in "race" circumstances, but I've found that for everyday driving, it's just a bunch of flashing lights and numbers that aren't very aesthetically pleasing.
Assuming your car is properly tuned, I would argue that the wideband is not necessary. Nice to have, but not necessary. How many wideband gauges do you see on cars with factory forced induction? Even if you were to experience a mechanical failure that would cause a lean condition, the wideband won't necessarily help you locate it. Depending on where you have the sensor mounted, it may not even detect it (re-read the comment about where to mount it).
I recommend choosing a gauge that is aesthetically pleasing to you. Personally, I don't like the flashing lights and digital readout of most wideband gauges. I do like a full sweep analogue style gauge, and there are finally a few of these on the market. Pick the one that best matches your other gauges. If you are going to be tuning the car yourself, or custom tuning via test drives and e-mail, spend the extra coin on a gauge that has the ability to data log. If you are going to have someone else tune the car on the dyno, he'll have his own wideband setup and you should pick what looks good to you.
I have two cars with wideband gauges, and if I had it to do over again, I would purchase the Innovate LM-2, and only plug it in during tuning and race sessions, as well as have the ability to use it on multiple cars.
01-29-2015, 05:53 PM
#15
I have the Autometer three gauge dash mount in the Mustang. I have an A-pillar pod on my pickup. I find that the A-pillar is easier to see and pay attention to while I'm driving, particularly when I'm driving hard. Something to think about.
The sensor bung will need to be welded into the exhaust, preferably forward of the catalytic converter. There is no pre-existing bung on the factory exhaust, and you cannot simply replace one of the factory O2 sensors. On most new "V" engines, each bank of cylinders has its own catalytic converter, so you want to chose the exhaust bank that is most likely to experience a lean condition. This will be the bank of cylinders farthest from the fuel pump.
In closed loop (partial throttle or idle) operation it should read 14.7 +/- 0.2.
Under Open Loop (WOT or partial throttle with heavy load, long steady hill climbs can force an open loop situation even under part throttle) operation, a forced induction engine should be tuned to between 11- 12, but don't be surprised to see anything between 12-14.7 in a part throttle, open loop situation.
Under deceleration or coasting (closed throttle) I believe the free air calibration is something like 24.3 (don't quote me on that). Many gauges don't even go that high.
I'm going to catch some flack for saying this, but if your car is tuned and running properly, a wideband AFR gauge is just novelty unless you are racing or constantly at WOT. You will find out that when you get heavy on the skinny pedal, it will drop to 11.x. When you are just cruising, it will remain close to 14.7, and when you are coasting it, it will max out the gauge. It is a great tuning tool, and can be used as warning to avoid catastrophic failure in "race" circumstances, but I've found that for everyday driving, it's just a bunch of flashing lights and numbers that aren't very aesthetically pleasing.
Assuming your car is properly tuned, I would argue that the wideband is not necessary. Nice to have, but not necessary. How many wideband gauges do you see on cars with factory forced induction? Even if you were to experience a mechanical failure that would cause a lean condition, the wideband won't necessarily help you locate it. Depending on where you have the sensor mounted, it may not even detect it (re-read the comment about where to mount it).
I recommend choosing a gauge that is aesthetically pleasing to you. Personally, I don't like the flashing lights and digital readout of most wideband gauges. I do like a full sweep analogue style gauge, and there are finally a few of these on the market. Pick the one that best matches your other gauges. If you are going to be tuning the car yourself, or custom tuning via test drives and e-mail, spend the extra coin on a gauge that has the ability to data log. If you are going to have someone else tune the car on the dyno, he'll have his own wideband setup and you should pick what looks good to you.
I have two cars with wideband gauges, and if I had it to do over again, I would purchase the Innovate LM-2, and only plug it in during tuning and race sessions, as well as have the ability to use it on multiple cars.
The sensor bung will need to be welded into the exhaust, preferably forward of the catalytic converter. There is no pre-existing bung on the factory exhaust, and you cannot simply replace one of the factory O2 sensors. On most new "V" engines, each bank of cylinders has its own catalytic converter, so you want to chose the exhaust bank that is most likely to experience a lean condition. This will be the bank of cylinders farthest from the fuel pump.
In closed loop (partial throttle or idle) operation it should read 14.7 +/- 0.2.
Under Open Loop (WOT or partial throttle with heavy load, long steady hill climbs can force an open loop situation even under part throttle) operation, a forced induction engine should be tuned to between 11- 12, but don't be surprised to see anything between 12-14.7 in a part throttle, open loop situation.
Under deceleration or coasting (closed throttle) I believe the free air calibration is something like 24.3 (don't quote me on that). Many gauges don't even go that high.
I'm going to catch some flack for saying this, but if your car is tuned and running properly, a wideband AFR gauge is just novelty unless you are racing or constantly at WOT. You will find out that when you get heavy on the skinny pedal, it will drop to 11.x. When you are just cruising, it will remain close to 14.7, and when you are coasting it, it will max out the gauge. It is a great tuning tool, and can be used as warning to avoid catastrophic failure in "race" circumstances, but I've found that for everyday driving, it's just a bunch of flashing lights and numbers that aren't very aesthetically pleasing.
Assuming your car is properly tuned, I would argue that the wideband is not necessary. Nice to have, but not necessary. How many wideband gauges do you see on cars with factory forced induction? Even if you were to experience a mechanical failure that would cause a lean condition, the wideband won't necessarily help you locate it. Depending on where you have the sensor mounted, it may not even detect it (re-read the comment about where to mount it).
I recommend choosing a gauge that is aesthetically pleasing to you. Personally, I don't like the flashing lights and digital readout of most wideband gauges. I do like a full sweep analogue style gauge, and there are finally a few of these on the market. Pick the one that best matches your other gauges. If you are going to be tuning the car yourself, or custom tuning via test drives and e-mail, spend the extra coin on a gauge that has the ability to data log. If you are going to have someone else tune the car on the dyno, he'll have his own wideband setup and you should pick what looks good to you.
I have two cars with wideband gauges, and if I had it to do over again, I would purchase the Innovate LM-2, and only plug it in during tuning and race sessions, as well as have the ability to use it on multiple cars.
The wideband i'm planning on getting isn't a digital or one with flashing lights. I'm going to keep it simple and get a plain analog one. I figure it'll do the job for what i'm going to be using it for. Should something happen and I am running lean, the sensor may not be able to get a location on it, but it'll be able to tell me, "Hey man, you should probably get off the road and check it out."
My car has a regular tune from AM/BAMA, and it'll probably stay that way for awhile. Unless I can find a speed shop around here that comes recommended. I don't plan on tuning the car myself at all. While i'm sure it's fun, i'll leave it to people that actually know what they are doing.
As far as datalogging the car, i'm pretty sure the SCT tuner can do that on it's own. I've never datalogged the car before, so I could be 100% wrong on that.
01-29-2015, 07:00 PM
#16
Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan again!
Posts: 8,579
To avoid fouling out the sensor it needs to be between the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock position. You don't want it low because condensation will foul it eventually. And yes, before the cats is where you want it.
I had 2 gauges in my 2006 with the Xcharger, both in Roush vent pods (boost and wideband AFR):
On my 2013 I have the Ford Racing center dash mount pod, similar to what you are talking about. It did require drilling into the dash to run wires etc.
I had 2 gauges in my 2006 with the Xcharger, both in Roush vent pods (boost and wideband AFR):
On my 2013 I have the Ford Racing center dash mount pod, similar to what you are talking about. It did require drilling into the dash to run wires etc.
01-30-2015, 06:40 AM
#17
To avoid fouling out the sensor it needs to be between the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock position. You don't want it low because condensation will foul it eventually. And yes, before the cats is where you want it.
I had 2 gauges in my 2006 with the Xcharger, both in Roush vent pods (boost and wideband AFR):
On my 2013 I have the Ford Racing center dash mount pod, similar to what you are talking about. It did require drilling into the dash to run wires etc.
I had 2 gauges in my 2006 with the Xcharger, both in Roush vent pods (boost and wideband AFR):
On my 2013 I have the Ford Racing center dash mount pod, similar to what you are talking about. It did require drilling into the dash to run wires etc.
Going over a final few things and I might be ordering this weekend.
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