Looking at an S197, Deciding on V6 w/ upgrades or V8
03-22-2015, 01:38 PM
#1
Looking at an S197, Deciding on V6 w/ upgrades or V8
Howdy all,
Use to be an active member on MF w/ my old 2002 GT Convertible. The car bit the dust when it blew a plug, had a sleeve installed, and the plug blew again w/ a hole too big to sleeve. Installed a new head, things happened, and it wasn't worth trying to pour more into.
Looking into the present, I'm eyeballing an S197 convertible and have been reading up on the differences between the GT and the V6.
I have two trains of thought going on in my mind. I would absolutely not mind a V6 as I'm not a racer and I don't demand ultra high power gitty up and go. Don't get me wrong, for the short life my GT had I enjoyed the ability to slam the gas and go, but it isn't entirely necessary if that makes any sense. Right now I'm driving a Yaris. Can't get much worse than that without going into a Geo 3 banger.
If I picked up a V6, my immediate upgrades would include dual exhaust, , an aluminum drive shaft, 3.73 w/ limited slip differential, a cold air intake and a 70mm throttle body. Obviously a tune would be included and I'd install new bearings in the rear. I don't know for sure if there's anything else I'd really NEED to do right off the bat. Sidebar, I tried to find new 7.5 28 shim axles but can't seem to find any aftermarket axles for some reason. Are they just not necessary to replace and that's why there don't seem to be any? I've Google'd, I've looked at CJ Pony Parts, American Muscle, and just can't find any.
Now the unknown for me is I know that the GT's come with a lot of that preinstalled. If I am understanding things correctly I'd still want to regear to 3.73 and give it a tune, but there'd not be much else to really worry about. Again, that's based on my current understanding and not based on fact.
When I'm looking at both vehicles I'm looking at V6's running around $7k in my area and GT's running around $13k. I understand that resale value will hold better with a GT, but resale isn't a factor for me. If I got a V6 my longterm goals would be to build a V8 for it and maintain it for the life of the frame. Could be a really cool project over the long term.
What I'm posting for is to get accurate information from folks that have been down this road already and have thoughts and experiences to share, whether setting me straight on the facts that I believe to be true or preventing me from making future heartaches a reality, if that makes sense.
Thank you all for your time!
Use to be an active member on MF w/ my old 2002 GT Convertible. The car bit the dust when it blew a plug, had a sleeve installed, and the plug blew again w/ a hole too big to sleeve. Installed a new head, things happened, and it wasn't worth trying to pour more into.
Looking into the present, I'm eyeballing an S197 convertible and have been reading up on the differences between the GT and the V6.
I have two trains of thought going on in my mind. I would absolutely not mind a V6 as I'm not a racer and I don't demand ultra high power gitty up and go. Don't get me wrong, for the short life my GT had I enjoyed the ability to slam the gas and go, but it isn't entirely necessary if that makes any sense. Right now I'm driving a Yaris. Can't get much worse than that without going into a Geo 3 banger.
If I picked up a V6, my immediate upgrades would include dual exhaust, , an aluminum drive shaft, 3.73 w/ limited slip differential, a cold air intake and a 70mm throttle body. Obviously a tune would be included and I'd install new bearings in the rear. I don't know for sure if there's anything else I'd really NEED to do right off the bat. Sidebar, I tried to find new 7.5 28 shim axles but can't seem to find any aftermarket axles for some reason. Are they just not necessary to replace and that's why there don't seem to be any? I've Google'd, I've looked at CJ Pony Parts, American Muscle, and just can't find any.
Now the unknown for me is I know that the GT's come with a lot of that preinstalled. If I am understanding things correctly I'd still want to regear to 3.73 and give it a tune, but there'd not be much else to really worry about. Again, that's based on my current understanding and not based on fact.
When I'm looking at both vehicles I'm looking at V6's running around $7k in my area and GT's running around $13k. I understand that resale value will hold better with a GT, but resale isn't a factor for me. If I got a V6 my longterm goals would be to build a V8 for it and maintain it for the life of the frame. Could be a really cool project over the long term.
What I'm posting for is to get accurate information from folks that have been down this road already and have thoughts and experiences to share, whether setting me straight on the facts that I believe to be true or preventing me from making future heartaches a reality, if that makes sense.
Thank you all for your time!
03-22-2015, 01:56 PM
#2
Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan again!
Posts: 8,575
Don't waste the money trying to build the 7.5 - in the long run it is cheaper to swap it for the 8.8 out of a 2005-10 GT or any Mustang after 2011 (all have the 8.8 starting in 2011).
That's why it is getting tough to find parts to build the 7.5, cost isn't worth it.
Sidebar, I tried to find new 7.5 28 shim axles but can't seem to find any aftermarket axles for some reason. Are they just not necessary to replace and that's why there don't seem to be any? I've Google'd, I've looked at CJ Pony Parts, American Muscle, and just can't find any.
03-22-2015, 02:11 PM
#3
To make sure I'm understanding you correctly, you're in the boat of, "Start with the GT despite the extra cost"?
Out of what I'm looking to do w/ the V6, does any of it translate over if I get a GT instead? I'd do the Cold Air and tune as I think every car needs that. I'd also likely open up the throttle body. Anything else, based on the list I showed above (I hope you can see where my thoughts are in that list) that you'd do?
03-22-2015, 03:12 PM
#4
Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan again!
Posts: 8,575
To make sure I'm understanding you correctly, you're in the boat of, "Start with the GT despite the extra cost"?
Out of what I'm looking to do w/ the V6, does any of it translate over if I get a GT instead? I'd do the Cold Air and tune as I think every car needs that. I'd also likely open up the throttle body. Anything else, based on the list I showed above (I hope you can see where my thoughts are in that list) that you'd do?
Out of what I'm looking to do w/ the V6, does any of it translate over if I get a GT instead? I'd do the Cold Air and tune as I think every car needs that. I'd also likely open up the throttle body. Anything else, based on the list I showed above (I hope you can see where my thoughts are in that list) that you'd do?
I would never be one to say "get the V8"!
03-22-2015, 03:14 PM
#5
No, what I am saying is don't bother trying to find the parts to build the 7.5" rear end. It isn't worth the time and money. Cheaper to swap the 8.8" rear end instead. Especially if you are planning to do any kind of a power upgrade in the future. The 7.5" rear end won't last long (all it took was a tune and drag radials to break the supposedly indestructible gears in my 7.5 on the 2006).
I would never be one to say "get the V8"!
I would never be one to say "get the V8"!
03-22-2015, 04:46 PM
#6
Johncrist, I've owned both a fairly modded 05V6 as well as currently owning an 09GT, so I'll offer my opinion on your situation. Get the gt.
Dont get me wrong, I absolutely LOVED my 05V6, and it was as many would say, a boring automatic base V6 Mustang. Only, that was the perfect platform as far as I was concerned at the time. It allowed me to transform the engine, drivetrain, suspension, interior and exterior into something distinct and my own. Infact, I had many of the items you are looking to put on you'r potential V6.
Sure it wasn't the fastest, or best handling or luxurious vehicle, but god damn was it an amazing cruiser. I live in a relatively wealthy area where Porsches, Maseratis, Bentleys, and Ferraris etc are cars you commonly see on the weekend cruising also; and THOSE guys would roll down their windows at lights to compliment and ask about my car.
I had that car since new, and my plan was to keep it forever so in 40 years, I could cruise in it and it would be equivalent to seeing a classic rolling around today. I spent a stupid amount of money (hindsight is 20/20) on maintenance and top self parts, because my logic was (and still is) buy it once and buy it right. By summer 2013 I had the "perfect" car. Perfect that is, minus a V8 engine and stick-shift, which I eventually planned to swap in some years down the road when the V6 finally bit it. Well...fate had other plans and in the fall of 2013 I totaled the car. Long story short, I lost a lot of the money I had put into the car, and now I had to start all over.
Enter my 09GT. Found a car optioned the way I wanted, low miles, owned by an older couple who were motivated to sell. It took some time to find the "right" car, but it was worth it. All things considered, It is an overall better starting point and-then-some from my V6. I had 3.73 gears in my 6, but even with stock 3.31s in the gt, it still; has more get-up than the sixxer, plus a factory 8.8, no dicking around with the 7.5. Better engine, better brakes (stock for stock), nicer interior, etc.
Do I miss my V6? Yes and no. I miss the 8 years of work I put into it to make it unique and make it special. However, I'd be lying if I said the V8 wasn't a better car, it really is. And it may sound played out, but yes, the sound alone from the 8 makes it worth while. I could never imagine going from an 8->6 in any way/shape or form, it just seems illogical, especially since the 05-09s are pretty inexpensive these days. Hell, my GT is essentially stock, save a tuneless intake and boss quad/ fr500s exhaust.
Like you, I have no plans doing any serious performance driving, and use my car as a summer only daily driver/cruiser. Even with my stock GT, I'm contempt with its current composure, and will only really "upgrade" parts as I need to replace them.
I would have never traded my 05V6 for a gt, but given a clean slate to start, its only logical (IMO) to get the V8. Unless you have the means to steal a V6 for cheap along with a plethora of parts off the bat to customize, but that is rarely the case.
Ultimately, it's up to you. A maxed out N/A 4.0 will be comparable (in a race) to stock/ lightly modded new edge like you've owned, but you'd still be starting well behind that, and lose the rumble that mustangs have been known for since their incarnation. Granted any S197 will be more roomy and comfortable and the new edge.
Not sure how much any of this helped, but having owned both and put some money into them, I thought I'd let my voice be heard. At the end of the day, I know you'll be happy because duh, you're in Mustang again, but if you can swing it, buy the GT
Cheers
Dont get me wrong, I absolutely LOVED my 05V6, and it was as many would say, a boring automatic base V6 Mustang. Only, that was the perfect platform as far as I was concerned at the time. It allowed me to transform the engine, drivetrain, suspension, interior and exterior into something distinct and my own. Infact, I had many of the items you are looking to put on you'r potential V6.
Sure it wasn't the fastest, or best handling or luxurious vehicle, but god damn was it an amazing cruiser. I live in a relatively wealthy area where Porsches, Maseratis, Bentleys, and Ferraris etc are cars you commonly see on the weekend cruising also; and THOSE guys would roll down their windows at lights to compliment and ask about my car.
I had that car since new, and my plan was to keep it forever so in 40 years, I could cruise in it and it would be equivalent to seeing a classic rolling around today. I spent a stupid amount of money (hindsight is 20/20) on maintenance and top self parts, because my logic was (and still is) buy it once and buy it right. By summer 2013 I had the "perfect" car. Perfect that is, minus a V8 engine and stick-shift, which I eventually planned to swap in some years down the road when the V6 finally bit it. Well...fate had other plans and in the fall of 2013 I totaled the car. Long story short, I lost a lot of the money I had put into the car, and now I had to start all over.
Enter my 09GT. Found a car optioned the way I wanted, low miles, owned by an older couple who were motivated to sell. It took some time to find the "right" car, but it was worth it. All things considered, It is an overall better starting point and-then-some from my V6. I had 3.73 gears in my 6, but even with stock 3.31s in the gt, it still; has more get-up than the sixxer, plus a factory 8.8, no dicking around with the 7.5. Better engine, better brakes (stock for stock), nicer interior, etc.
Do I miss my V6? Yes and no. I miss the 8 years of work I put into it to make it unique and make it special. However, I'd be lying if I said the V8 wasn't a better car, it really is. And it may sound played out, but yes, the sound alone from the 8 makes it worth while. I could never imagine going from an 8->6 in any way/shape or form, it just seems illogical, especially since the 05-09s are pretty inexpensive these days. Hell, my GT is essentially stock, save a tuneless intake and boss quad/ fr500s exhaust.
Like you, I have no plans doing any serious performance driving, and use my car as a summer only daily driver/cruiser. Even with my stock GT, I'm contempt with its current composure, and will only really "upgrade" parts as I need to replace them.
I would have never traded my 05V6 for a gt, but given a clean slate to start, its only logical (IMO) to get the V8. Unless you have the means to steal a V6 for cheap along with a plethora of parts off the bat to customize, but that is rarely the case.
Ultimately, it's up to you. A maxed out N/A 4.0 will be comparable (in a race) to stock/ lightly modded new edge like you've owned, but you'd still be starting well behind that, and lose the rumble that mustangs have been known for since their incarnation. Granted any S197 will be more roomy and comfortable and the new edge.
Not sure how much any of this helped, but having owned both and put some money into them, I thought I'd let my voice be heard. At the end of the day, I know you'll be happy because duh, you're in Mustang again, but if you can swing it, buy the GT
Cheers
03-22-2015, 06:30 PM
#7
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Georgia
Posts: 414
Personally, I'd opt for the GT. The V6 will never have the same sound and feel as the GT, and in my humble opinion, it's worth the price of admission. Even if you never really use the power from the GT, it still feels good knowing you have it under your foot. And even when you drive one conservatively, they sound so good!
03-22-2015, 06:34 PM
#8
Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan again!
Posts: 8,575
Oh, I gotcha. I'm assuming then, based on what you're saying, that it's more or less a straight swap out of an donor GT? Naturally I'll Google it if I end up getting the V6, but I'm guessing rather than regearing it and whatnot it'll just end up being better to get the rear replaced right off the cuff.
03-23-2015, 12:38 PM
#10
I haven't owned/driven a GT before, so I can only talk about my experiences about my sixxer.
Bought it July 2011. The only thing it had done to it was Borla dual exhaust. I bought the V6 because that's what I could afford at the time. I wanted something faster than my truck, but also something that looked good. There was a GT sitting next to mine on the lot, but opted for the six instead.
After getting a feel for the car, I purchased a CAI and tune. What a difference that made. I've been running the 93 Race tune since I picked it up, that is until I need emissions done to it, then I revert back to the 87 tune. The car shifts more aggressively, and accelerated way faster than the stock tune.
A year later, I bought a used 8.8 from a member on here, bought a rebuild kit, new differential and a set of 3.73's. Had the axle rebuild from the ground up and installed. I wish I had done it sooner. The difference is night and day. It feels weird to drive my mom's 2007 convertible since hers is 100% stock. It feels like I can run circles around her car.
I also put on some adjustable shocks/struts and lowered it about an inch all the way around and put on some lower control arms. The car doesn't squat under a heavy acceleration and just gos.
Now, if I could go back, would I get a GT? Probably. I do get jealous whenever I hear one rev their engine. Mine won't sound as good as that, BUT that's okay. I think mine sounds great and looks beautiful. I am extremely happy with how far i've come with the car. I've learned a lot from working on it, and it's translated to other cars. I still get the biggest smile on my face whenever stop at a light and quickly get up to speed when it turns green.
I don't think there is anything wrong with owning a V6. There will always be the person that will tell you to get a GT, because it's faster/sounds nicer. That may be true, but there will always be someone faster than your car.
Bought it July 2011. The only thing it had done to it was Borla dual exhaust. I bought the V6 because that's what I could afford at the time. I wanted something faster than my truck, but also something that looked good. There was a GT sitting next to mine on the lot, but opted for the six instead.
After getting a feel for the car, I purchased a CAI and tune. What a difference that made. I've been running the 93 Race tune since I picked it up, that is until I need emissions done to it, then I revert back to the 87 tune. The car shifts more aggressively, and accelerated way faster than the stock tune.
A year later, I bought a used 8.8 from a member on here, bought a rebuild kit, new differential and a set of 3.73's. Had the axle rebuild from the ground up and installed. I wish I had done it sooner. The difference is night and day. It feels weird to drive my mom's 2007 convertible since hers is 100% stock. It feels like I can run circles around her car.
I also put on some adjustable shocks/struts and lowered it about an inch all the way around and put on some lower control arms. The car doesn't squat under a heavy acceleration and just gos.
Now, if I could go back, would I get a GT? Probably. I do get jealous whenever I hear one rev their engine. Mine won't sound as good as that, BUT that's okay. I think mine sounds great and looks beautiful. I am extremely happy with how far i've come with the car. I've learned a lot from working on it, and it's translated to other cars. I still get the biggest smile on my face whenever stop at a light and quickly get up to speed when it turns green.
I don't think there is anything wrong with owning a V6. There will always be the person that will tell you to get a GT, because it's faster/sounds nicer. That may be true, but there will always be someone faster than your car.
