Looking for Help on a Check Engine Light
#1
Looking for Help on a Check Engine Light
This may end up being a long winded post, but I'm going to try to keep it as succinct as possible. To start with, here's some specs, to save you from asking. If you need more info, just ask. I can't guarantee I'll know the answer though
4.6, manual transmission
K&N CAI
Magnaflow exhaust, x pipe, dual cat
Likely tuned, but I'm not sure
I recently purchased a 2006 GT as is from a dealer. When I initially bought it I was told they were waiting on a part for an o2 sensor issue that was setting off the check engine light (rookie mistake, I know, buying it while it was still an issue). They beat around the bush for months, and eventually did some work on the mass air flow sensor, but warned me that because of the extensive exhaust upgrades, it would probably come back on. And it has.
Codes:
P0430: Catalytic Converter below threshold (Bank 2)
P2195: Undefined code (I'm told only the dealer can read this?)
Symptoms:
Rough idle about a minute or two after start up. Very inconsistent. Sometimes it lasts a minute or two and sounds like it's going to stall, other times it may only last 30 seconds. If I start to drive it too soon the acceleration is very sluggish. Once it passes it runs just fine.
The dealer said the o2 sensors and the cats are just fine, and someone suggested it could be and EGR valve or something along those lines, and that whatever the "undefined" code is, is more than likely causing the P0430 code. I'm still learning about how a lot of this stuff works as this is my first non-junker car, so just assume I'm a total noob with this stuff. Any insight you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
4.6, manual transmission
K&N CAI
Magnaflow exhaust, x pipe, dual cat
Likely tuned, but I'm not sure
I recently purchased a 2006 GT as is from a dealer. When I initially bought it I was told they were waiting on a part for an o2 sensor issue that was setting off the check engine light (rookie mistake, I know, buying it while it was still an issue). They beat around the bush for months, and eventually did some work on the mass air flow sensor, but warned me that because of the extensive exhaust upgrades, it would probably come back on. And it has.
Codes:
P0430: Catalytic Converter below threshold (Bank 2)
P2195: Undefined code (I'm told only the dealer can read this?)
Symptoms:
Rough idle about a minute or two after start up. Very inconsistent. Sometimes it lasts a minute or two and sounds like it's going to stall, other times it may only last 30 seconds. If I start to drive it too soon the acceleration is very sluggish. Once it passes it runs just fine.
The dealer said the o2 sensors and the cats are just fine, and someone suggested it could be and EGR valve or something along those lines, and that whatever the "undefined" code is, is more than likely causing the P0430 code. I'm still learning about how a lot of this stuff works as this is my first non-junker car, so just assume I'm a total noob with this stuff. Any insight you could give me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
#2
Welcome to the forum!
Just a thought - you could have Ford re-flash it to factory and go from there. Then buy a tuner (several vendors on this forum offer tuners and tunes, such as American Muscle.com and Bama tunes) and use that to address any issues.
Why can't the dealer tell you what the undefined code is?
Hindsight is 20/20, but you should have stuck to your guns when you got the vehicle and made them address the issues.
I wouldn't call you exhaust set up "extensive" if you still have the cats.
Just a thought - you could have Ford re-flash it to factory and go from there. Then buy a tuner (several vendors on this forum offer tuners and tunes, such as American Muscle.com and Bama tunes) and use that to address any issues.
Why can't the dealer tell you what the undefined code is?
Hindsight is 20/20, but you should have stuck to your guns when you got the vehicle and made them address the issues.
I wouldn't call you exhaust set up "extensive" if you still have the cats.
#3
P0430: Catalytic Converter below threshold (Bank 2)
P2195: Undefined code (I'm told only the dealer can read this?)
P2195: Undefined code (I'm told only the dealer can read this?)
#4
Yeah, you have a bad cat. Chances are you'll also get a P0420 soon for the other cat too. I'd change them before they melt, fall apart, or clog up. Believe me, you do NOT want that to happen.
The K&N might be causing your P2195 code, its really doing nothing for you so I'd get a good CAI like a JLT to replace it and a good tune from somewhere like Brenspeed or Bama, etc. (I know its expensive but its definitely worth it).
The minute or two after start-up thing means something is wrong during "open loop," meaning the existing tune is screwed up (more than likely its probably a combination of the K&N and the tune). Open loop only lasts 120 seconds after start-up and during that time, the O2's aren't working. The P2195 will only set after the cars goes into "closed loop" and the front O2's start working.
You also go into "open loop" at WOT, so I wouldn't go mashing the gas until the tune gets straightened out. You do not want it to be lean at WOT.
Also change the plugs, and clean the throttle body and MAF sensor.
The K&N might be causing your P2195 code, its really doing nothing for you so I'd get a good CAI like a JLT to replace it and a good tune from somewhere like Brenspeed or Bama, etc. (I know its expensive but its definitely worth it).
The minute or two after start-up thing means something is wrong during "open loop," meaning the existing tune is screwed up (more than likely its probably a combination of the K&N and the tune). Open loop only lasts 120 seconds after start-up and during that time, the O2's aren't working. The P2195 will only set after the cars goes into "closed loop" and the front O2's start working.
You also go into "open loop" at WOT, so I wouldn't go mashing the gas until the tune gets straightened out. You do not want it to be lean at WOT.
Also change the plugs, and clean the throttle body and MAF sensor.
Last edited by jpplaw; 04-23-2015 at 07:55 AM.
#5
Yeah, you have a bad cat. Chances are you'll also get a P0420 soon for the other cat too. I'd change them before they melt, fall apart, or clog up. Believe me, you do NOT want that to happen.
The K&N might be causing your P2195 code, its really doing nothing for you so I'd get a good CAI like a JLT to replace it and a good tune from somewhere like Brenspeed or Bama, etc. (I know its expensive but its definitely worth it).
The minute or two after start-up thing means something is wrong during "open loop," meaning the existing tune is screwed up (more than likely its probably a combination of the K&N and the tune). Open loop only lasts 120 seconds after start-up and during that time, the O2's aren't working. The P2195 will only set after the cars goes into "closed loop" and the front O2's start working.
You also go into "open loop" at WOT, so I wouldn't go mashing the gas until the tune gets straightened out. You do not want it to be lean at WOT
The K&N might be causing your P2195 code, its really doing nothing for you so I'd get a good CAI like a JLT to replace it and a good tune from somewhere like Brenspeed or Bama, etc. (I know its expensive but its definitely worth it).
The minute or two after start-up thing means something is wrong during "open loop," meaning the existing tune is screwed up (more than likely its probably a combination of the K&N and the tune). Open loop only lasts 120 seconds after start-up and during that time, the O2's aren't working. The P2195 will only set after the cars goes into "closed loop" and the front O2's start working.
You also go into "open loop" at WOT, so I wouldn't go mashing the gas until the tune gets straightened out. You do not want it to be lean at WOT
Forgive my ignorance, but what does WOT stand for?
Thank you both for your help. Very much appreciated.
#6
Welcome to the forum!
Just a thought - you could have Ford re-flash it to factory and go from there. Then buy a tuner (several vendors on this forum offer tuners and tunes, such as American Muscle.com and Bama tunes) and use that to address any issues.
Why can't the dealer tell you what the undefined code is?
Hindsight is 20/20, but you should have stuck to your guns when you got the vehicle and made them address the issues.
I wouldn't call you exhaust set up "extensive" if you still have the cats.
Just a thought - you could have Ford re-flash it to factory and go from there. Then buy a tuner (several vendors on this forum offer tuners and tunes, such as American Muscle.com and Bama tunes) and use that to address any issues.
Why can't the dealer tell you what the undefined code is?
Hindsight is 20/20, but you should have stuck to your guns when you got the vehicle and made them address the issues.
I wouldn't call you exhaust set up "extensive" if you still have the cats.
Honestly I'm tired of having the dealer give me the run-around. It's a decent drive and I know they're just going to keep telling me it's not a big issue so they won't have to do any serious work on it. I'd rather fix what I can myself and go to someone honest to do the rest.
It may not be extensive, I was just quoting the dealer on that. But removing the cats would have to be a temporary thing, until I have to go through inspection, correct?
#7
the front (upstream) O2 sensor is what the engine uses to monitor its operation. The electrical signal is an oscillating signal which varies as the engine goes between slightly rich and slightly lean. The rear O2 sensor just monitors the catalyst; it should be a much more stable signal and not oscillate much if at all. If the signal coming from the rear O2 sensor is too similar to the signal coming from the front O2 sensor, the catalyst is no longer functioning correctly and the PCM will set catalyst efficiency codes. It's pretty much the only thing that can cause those codes.
Forgot to reply to this, but I wanted your input on what I asked the other two responders--should I assume it's a bad cat, or just start with having it reflashed/tuned, etc, and then go from there?
Forgive my ignorance, but what does WOT stand for?
* the only really "random" failure I've seen on a catalytic converter is if the ceramic honeycomb substrate cracks.
Last edited by jz78817; 04-23-2015 at 03:30 PM.
#8
Ok. Thanks for the explanation. Like I said, I'm a bit new to all of this, but forums like this one have definitely been a great education. I appreciate your help. Guess it's time to go cat shopping...any recommendations that won't destroy my wallet?
#9
Then either take off the K&N or get something that works with a tune.
#10
Forgot to reply to this, but I wanted your input on what I asked the other two responders--should I assume it's a bad cat, or just start with having it reflashed/tuned, etc, and then go from there?
Honestly I'm tired of having the dealer give me the run-around. It's a decent drive and I know they're just going to keep telling me it's not a big issue so they won't have to do any serious work on it. I'd rather fix what I can myself and go to someone honest to do the rest.
It may not be extensive, I was just quoting the dealer on that. But removing the cats would have to be a temporary thing, until I have to go through inspection, correct?
Honestly I'm tired of having the dealer give me the run-around. It's a decent drive and I know they're just going to keep telling me it's not a big issue so they won't have to do any serious work on it. I'd rather fix what I can myself and go to someone honest to do the rest.
It may not be extensive, I was just quoting the dealer on that. But removing the cats would have to be a temporary thing, until I have to go through inspection, correct?
I am pro-cats. These cars are tough enough on the environment and I think it is irresponsible, even if legal, to remove the cats. I know many here feel otherwise but at the end of the day that affects air quality for all of us. I'm not sure about your state but cats are required in Texas and pretty much every populated / environmentally conscious / liberal / smog-filled state. There's probably an exception to the rule but I couldn't tell you off hand which states do NOT require cats to pass inspection.
Off topic, but I commend you for your approach here. You came to this forum seeking people's input - and you appear to actually be interested and appreciative of what's being said. Many people come to this forum, ask the same old questions, and then reject the input of forum members. Kudos to you.
Negative kudos to your dealer for being so lousy.