EPAS Rack steering fights me. Pulls left. It's Alive!!!
10-07-2015, 12:45 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
EPAS Rack steering fights me. It's Alive!!!
So my 2013 GT has a life of its own. The nick name for it is K.I.T. from Knightrider.
This all started when I drove home and finally settled into the car. I noticed the steering had play and would oversteer. I would be fighting pressure mostly pulling left to keep it straight with right wheel input. Scheduled an appt with Ford. Still have bumper to bumper.
While waiting 2 days for appt brought it to my own shop. They said it was the universal joint that connects the steering rod to the EPAS Rack. Ford said the same thing and that it was a manufacturing defect and fixed it. Wheel is snug but once in a while and not consistently especially with moderate to heavy braking or quick movement without brakes the car pulls left mostly. At slow speeds I might have to fight the pressures a little too, but the steering wheel is stiff with no play now.
A long story short Ford took some of the previous owners mods off including headers and long pipes and stuck stock exhaust on for emissions even though there are no inspections here.
I watched the Ford mechanic change the universal joint ***whacking the old one off with a mallet.*** Come to find out from the Mustang speciality shop that this is not good and prob how they bent the steering universal joint. That it needs to be loosened from the top of the shaft.
Our theory is they stressed the EPAS unit too and why it wigs out a couple times a month????
I just have to convince Ford to change it. $1100 to $1500 for the part. But i almost just want the part to have someone else do it or maybe another dealer.
Seeing a mallet used on your car is a bad omen.
Anyone else have steering issue with EPAS?
_____________________________________________
http://themustangsource.com/forums/f...-broke-530622/
After doing some reading on this forum it seems stressing the steering rod could cause the EPAS connection to loose some "teeth" from another thread. It does look like the steering joint connects to black plastic on the outside. I can't imagine it being plastic on the inside. Must be water proofing.
The universal joint replaced is on the steering rod. It connects to the metal that connect to that black plastic piece. The black piece spins and turns as some sorta sensor on the EPAS unit that is connected to the Rack.
Whacking this with a mallet to force the old joint off just does not seem like a good idea. Mustang experts said there is a way to loosen the joint from the top to take it off.
They must have done it to remove the headers. And they did it again in front of me while I was watching them work to remove the joint again and replace with a new joint. The mechanic also asked another one if this is the car they did the header's on (which were Kook per shop that did all the mods). I asked service rep and they said they have to do it for emissions requirements. They also took the LTs off and put Cats back on. (in a state that has no inspection) I bought the car with lots of mods and bought the car for the mods.
EPAS Rack steering fights me. Pulls left. It's Alive!!!-mustang-epas-joint-rotated.jpg
I really enjoy the car. I have learned a lot about Mustang mods and tuning. I also removed the Clutch Assist spring and wow. So much more control and less problems with shifting at high rpm. There were also some other issues with tuning except to say that if a mod Mustang is modified by Ford (like swapping exhaust) get a custom tune so it is not running rich or lean and smooth. All this has made the car a pleasure to drive progressively over the last 6 months. I just feel like some times I am fighting a force feedback joystick in a computer game still. This is just the last piece in the puzzle of this muscle car that was quiet frankly a little scary a few months ago.
Trying to give the benefit of the doubt with this. I do have Pirelli on the front. A thread said they can promote this. It is just these steering issues are not that consistent and more likely occasional.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramlining
Proud first time owner of a 2 year old Mustang with mods.
This all started when I drove home and finally settled into the car. I noticed the steering had play and would oversteer. I would be fighting pressure mostly pulling left to keep it straight with right wheel input. Scheduled an appt with Ford. Still have bumper to bumper.
While waiting 2 days for appt brought it to my own shop. They said it was the universal joint that connects the steering rod to the EPAS Rack. Ford said the same thing and that it was a manufacturing defect and fixed it. Wheel is snug but once in a while and not consistently especially with moderate to heavy braking or quick movement without brakes the car pulls left mostly. At slow speeds I might have to fight the pressures a little too, but the steering wheel is stiff with no play now.
A long story short Ford took some of the previous owners mods off including headers and long pipes and stuck stock exhaust on for emissions even though there are no inspections here.
I watched the Ford mechanic change the universal joint ***whacking the old one off with a mallet.*** Come to find out from the Mustang speciality shop that this is not good and prob how they bent the steering universal joint. That it needs to be loosened from the top of the shaft.
Our theory is they stressed the EPAS unit too and why it wigs out a couple times a month????
I just have to convince Ford to change it. $1100 to $1500 for the part. But i almost just want the part to have someone else do it or maybe another dealer.
Seeing a mallet used on your car is a bad omen.
Anyone else have steering issue with EPAS?
_____________________________________________
http://themustangsource.com/forums/f...-broke-530622/
After doing some reading on this forum it seems stressing the steering rod could cause the EPAS connection to loose some "teeth" from another thread. It does look like the steering joint connects to black plastic on the outside. I can't imagine it being plastic on the inside. Must be water proofing.
The universal joint replaced is on the steering rod. It connects to the metal that connect to that black plastic piece. The black piece spins and turns as some sorta sensor on the EPAS unit that is connected to the Rack.
Whacking this with a mallet to force the old joint off just does not seem like a good idea. Mustang experts said there is a way to loosen the joint from the top to take it off.
They must have done it to remove the headers. And they did it again in front of me while I was watching them work to remove the joint again and replace with a new joint. The mechanic also asked another one if this is the car they did the header's on (which were Kook per shop that did all the mods). I asked service rep and they said they have to do it for emissions requirements. They also took the LTs off and put Cats back on. (in a state that has no inspection) I bought the car with lots of mods and bought the car for the mods.
EPAS Rack steering fights me. Pulls left. It's Alive!!!-mustang-epas-joint-rotated.jpg
I really enjoy the car. I have learned a lot about Mustang mods and tuning. I also removed the Clutch Assist spring and wow. So much more control and less problems with shifting at high rpm. There were also some other issues with tuning except to say that if a mod Mustang is modified by Ford (like swapping exhaust) get a custom tune so it is not running rich or lean and smooth. All this has made the car a pleasure to drive progressively over the last 6 months. I just feel like some times I am fighting a force feedback joystick in a computer game still. This is just the last piece in the puzzle of this muscle car that was quiet frankly a little scary a few months ago.
Trying to give the benefit of the doubt with this. I do have Pirelli on the front. A thread said they can promote this. It is just these steering issues are not that consistent and more likely occasional.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramlining
Proud first time owner of a 2 year old Mustang with mods.
Last edited by jot; 10-15-2015 at 12:46 PM. Reason: delete pulls left
10-09-2015, 12:07 PM
#2
So my 2013 GT has a life of its own. The nick name for it is K.I.T. from Knightrider.
This all started when I drove home and finally settled into the car. I noticed the steering had play and would oversteer. I would be fighting pressure mostly pulling left to keep it straight with right wheel input. Scheduled an appt with Ford. Still have bumper to bumper. ...
This all started when I drove home and finally settled into the car. I noticed the steering had play and would oversteer. I would be fighting pressure mostly pulling left to keep it straight with right wheel input. Scheduled an appt with Ford. Still have bumper to bumper. ...
I’m happy to get this escalated for you. Please make another appointment with your dealer, and PM me with your VIN, dealer, mileage, full name, and best daytime number.
Deysha
10-09-2015, 03:52 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
Thank you so much for the option.
I have been solving the puzzle of this mod Mustang.
I will say that taking the Clutch Assist spring off has given me a lot more control and increased the stability of the car. I can't see many people wanting to leave it on if they knew what taking if off would be like unless they are a very petite person with very little strength.
I am still analyzing the problem and may change the front wheels to reduce Tramline and get the 3d Geometric Alignment before I pursue a EPAS replacement.
I am waiting for the car to pull or electronically force fight me again and so far it has not. It might also be do to downshifting when the Clutch Assist Spring was still on the car causing Tramline.
I really do not want to go through a EPAS replacement. I hope it does not happen anymore. I hope these less expensive, although not covered under warrantee, possible fixes like replacing the front tires and alignment check solve the issues.
Do you think it is possible that banging on the steering shaft with a hammer could have damaged the EPAS? It looks like plastic, but I imagine that it is mostly metal. The car 99% of the time steers fine and normal with just some minor electrical forces that I actually think are normal due to the road.
I would like to document this problem and get conformation that it is on file with Ford. Sending information.
I love the car.
Thank you so much for the option.
I have been solving the puzzle of this mod Mustang.
I will say that taking the Clutch Assist spring off has given me a lot more control and increased the stability of the car. I can't see many people wanting to leave it on if they knew what taking if off would be like unless they are a very petite person with very little strength.
I am still analyzing the problem and may change the front wheels to reduce Tramline and get the 3d Geometric Alignment before I pursue a EPAS replacement.
I am waiting for the car to pull or electronically force fight me again and so far it has not. It might also be do to downshifting when the Clutch Assist Spring was still on the car causing Tramline.
I really do not want to go through a EPAS replacement. I hope it does not happen anymore. I hope these less expensive, although not covered under warrantee, possible fixes like replacing the front tires and alignment check solve the issues.
Do you think it is possible that banging on the steering shaft with a hammer could have damaged the EPAS? It looks like plastic, but I imagine that it is mostly metal. The car 99% of the time steers fine and normal with just some minor electrical forces that I actually think are normal due to the road.
I would like to document this problem and get conformation that it is on file with Ford. Sending information.
I love the car.
Thank you so much for the option.
10-09-2015, 04:36 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
Is it possible to have an engineer from Ford that is an expert on the EPAS call me. I want him to evaluate if it is possible for the EPAS to be damaged by using a mallet on the steering shaft to replace the universal joint that connects to the EPAS?
The EPAS is not putting out any error codes, however, the computer at the Ford Dealership does not pull up past history. I understand that a point steering check history would require a special computer that dealerships do not have. That replacing the EPAS is more economical.
I am just not there yet with this.
The EPAS is not putting out any error codes, however, the computer at the Ford Dealership does not pull up past history. I understand that a point steering check history would require a special computer that dealerships do not have. That replacing the EPAS is more economical.
I am just not there yet with this.
10-14-2015, 08:26 AM
#5
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Georgia
Posts: 414
Not calling doubt or throwing any kind of flag on you here. Can you explain your train of thought on how the clutch is working effects how the car is tracking and tramlining? Just curious. I've been popping in here every now and then to check on this as EPAS is a neat idea to me and I'm surprised there aren't loads of problems reported with them.
As for the tramlining, I'd be more inclined to believe that there was an alignment issue with the EPAS steering rack. Maybe it was wacked too hard the wrong way? or the joint wasn't installed correctly?
As for the tramlining, I'd be more inclined to believe that there was an alignment issue with the EPAS steering rack. Maybe it was wacked too hard the wrong way? or the joint wasn't installed correctly?
Last edited by GLOCKer; 10-14-2015 at 08:36 AM.
10-14-2015, 09:47 AM
#6
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 2,260
Is it possible to have an engineer from Ford that is an expert on the EPAS call me. I want him to evaluate if it is possible for the EPAS to be damaged by using a mallet on the steering shaft to replace the universal joint that connects to the EPAS?
The EPAS is not putting out any error codes, however, the computer at the Ford Dealership does not pull up past history. I understand that a point steering check history would require a special computer that dealerships do not have. That replacing the EPAS is more economical.
I am just not there yet with this.
The EPAS is not putting out any error codes, however, the computer at the Ford Dealership does not pull up past history. I understand that a point steering check history would require a special computer that dealerships do not have. That replacing the EPAS is more economical.
I am just not there yet with this.
if it only pulls during and after braking, i would suspect a brake caliper or hose issue causing a caliper to drag after brake application
10-14-2015, 03:28 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 22
I was just thinking there was some sort of fluid issue with the brakes. I also understand that the clutch uses brake fluid. My downshifting might be aggravating the issue.
I also think the if it was a mechanical issue it would happen more often.
I am leaning towards an alignment or front tire issue. The front tires are the same circumference as stock.
It could be a software issue as I understand that the EPAS might be talking to the stability computers and making tire inputs for stability independent of the steering wheel inputs by the driver.
It is like I have to use extra input to get the steering wheel to go the other way. The car steers on its own or wants to go left or right and I am saying no boy I want to go the other way or stay in a straight line dam it.
I am suspicious of the Pirelli stock front tires tramlining. This is on the forums along with alignment causing tramilining.
Thanks for the replies.
I also think the if it was a mechanical issue it would happen more often.
I am leaning towards an alignment or front tire issue. The front tires are the same circumference as stock.
It could be a software issue as I understand that the EPAS might be talking to the stability computers and making tire inputs for stability independent of the steering wheel inputs by the driver.
It is like I have to use extra input to get the steering wheel to go the other way. The car steers on its own or wants to go left or right and I am saying no boy I want to go the other way or stay in a straight line dam it.
I am suspicious of the Pirelli stock front tires tramlining. This is on the forums along with alignment causing tramilining.
Thanks for the replies.
10-14-2015, 04:05 PM
#8
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 2,260
I was just thinking there was some sort of fluid issue with the brakes. I also understand that the clutch uses brake fluid. My downshifting might be aggravating the issue.
I also think the if it was a mechanical issue it would happen more often.
I am leaning towards an alignment or front tire issue. The front tires are the same circumference as stock.
It could be a software issue as I understand that the EPAS might be talking to the stability computers and making tire inputs for stability independent of the steering wheel inputs by the driver.
It is like I have to use extra input to get the steering wheel to go the other way. The car steers on its own or wants to go left or right and I am saying no boy I want to go the other way or stay in a straight line dam it.
I am suspicious of the Pirelli stock front tires tramlining. This is on the forums along with alignment causing tramilining.
Thanks for the replies.
I also think the if it was a mechanical issue it would happen more often.
I am leaning towards an alignment or front tire issue. The front tires are the same circumference as stock.
It could be a software issue as I understand that the EPAS might be talking to the stability computers and making tire inputs for stability independent of the steering wheel inputs by the driver.
It is like I have to use extra input to get the steering wheel to go the other way. The car steers on its own or wants to go left or right and I am saying no boy I want to go the other way or stay in a straight line dam it.
I am suspicious of the Pirelli stock front tires tramlining. This is on the forums along with alignment causing tramilining.
Thanks for the replies.
10-15-2015, 08:08 AM
#9
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: state of confusion
Posts: 7,635
Ford's EPAS systems also include features called "active nibble control" and "drift-pull compensation". Those things involve the EPAS making small corrections of some sort, and they absolutely do make the steering unreasonably sensitive to changes in the front LCA bushings. Basically I wouldn't eliminate the EPAS being at fault just yet.
Norm
Norm
10-15-2015, 08:31 AM
#10
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 2,260
active nibble control, tries to take steering wheel vibration caused by road surface and wheel balance and reduce the harshness. drift pull compensation compensates for road crown, it basically knows that you are putting pressure on the wheel to steer it one way or another at speed, and it will add some assist to make it less taxing for the driver to maintain that wheel position.i have my doubts that either of these strategies will cause a pull while braking as they are primarily for at speed low assist conditions.