audioAl

Any studies done on Staibil or octane boosters to combat ethanol poisoning of our ponies??

vegas_

ABSOLUTELY UNTRUE, look for Gas at $3 a gallon for then next 10 years, and 100% from the US and Canada.
"U.S. crude production has risen to a 21-year-high as a new combination of technologies has unlocked large resources of oil previously trapped in shale rock in North Dakota and Texas."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_oil_boom
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...r-in-2011.html

And it's rattling OPEC
http://www.redstate.com/2013/05/31/s...-rattles-opec/

13V6coupe

100% from the US and Canada...lol

I am all for non being dependant on others, but this is such a reach that there is no way to convince me it will ever happen. Well maybe if everyone decides to not sell to us anymore it would, but supply would be far less than it is now and prices would soar.

Adio--Octane boosters may or may not help with Ethanol poisoning, STARTRON is supposed to, but who knows if it is just sales hype or not. I have run it through my motorcycle for an entire season and it did a fantastic job of removing all the deposits on the intake valves.
I usually add TECHRON to my tanks for the winter and occassionally in the summer for maintenance cleaning.

vegas_

Well stick your head in the sand if you want. But it's happening.
Take a trip to North Dakota, if you want proof.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Dakota_oil_boom
These pics will make environmentalists cry
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/dis...akota-oil-boom
And those pics are from NPR!

Drill baby Drill ~ It's happening now

WindyMustang

On Stabil, that can be helpful to reduce the water in fuel issues that tend to come with ethanol. It turns out that ethanol likes to "latch onto" water molecules, but fortunately many products (including Stabil) can tamp that down for you.

On octane boosters, there's a zillion recipes out there but the most common ones use toluene IIRC. Toluene doesn't attract water like alcohols do, so the biggest risk with them is the unknown of what's in whatever brand you're using. For a stock, untuned car you almost certainly don't need them. It may be a very different case with an aggressive tune.

Hope this helps!

audioAl

Thanks for the reply. Alan

staleystarch

An interesting article from Matt Ridley's blog:
http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog...the-world.aspx

By the way, I highly recommend Matt Ridley's books.

WORKISSLOW

I am no expert nor a mechanic, but I have look at several of the arguments for and against alcohol.

As another poster pointed out gasoline has more chemical energy then alcohol. Alcohol doesn't have as much lubricating properties as gasoline either. Alcohol can also dry out some types of plastics and rubbers that other wise tolerate gasoline very well. In addition alcohol can dissolve some of the sediments coatings or lacquers left behind by gasoline which can cause problems. I know where i live in California one of the biggest victims of this is our lawn mowers and other yard equipment. When they increased the ethanol content of the gasoline it seem to clog up and or eat through all kinds of hoses and gaskets. Add to that there is the whole debacle ethanol production effecting food price and the competition for corn and what not.

Anyways I don't want to just beat up on alcohol, because it can have advantages, it is just not easy to take a vehicle designed for gasoline and run it on alcohol and get the same performance. There is a piece of legislation out there called the open fuel standard which essentially mandate that all new car be able to run on anything from straight gasoline to pure alcohol (I am not sure what the status of this is at the moment). I suppose that that day will come, technology will improve and costs will come down on production alcohol friendly cars.

Ethanol has a higher octane rating, so it suitable for a higher compression engine which in turn can make the engine more efficient and thus off set the deficit in power production between gasoline and alcohol. It is a good choice for fluid injection for cooling because unlike water it increase octane and helps prevent pre-detonation or knocking.

Ethanol is a single chemical, gasoline is a blend or many chemicals, often times more than 100 different chemicals go into a gasoline blend, most of which are toxic.

Ethanol is very stable, unlike gasoline it does not degrade on its own.

Ethanol is much cleaner burning then gasoline, you do not need smog controls like you do with gasoline.

Ethanol burns much cooler, you can run it in air cooled engines which can lower the cost and weight of vehicle.

Ethanol fires can be put out with water, gasoline usually spreads and flairs up when you hit it with water so fireman tend to use foam which is more expensive.

Ethanol does not require a refinery to be produces, it is can be distilled from fermented starches. Which is much simpler then refining and blending gasoline. (it can even be made from manure)

So the real question is can you get alcohol cheap enough to offset the loss of MPGs. Or can you switch to cars that run on alcohol which are less expensive, more reliable and so on. From what I understand the US auto industry produces alcohol burning cars for export to countries like Brazil where ethanol is a more common choice.

Now this is the part where most readers will start to glaze over or click out, but I think the best reason to switch to alcohol is not just safety or environmental reason but Economics. I know I threw out the "E" word, that will either get me ignored or require a flame suit but here it is in a nut shell.

Anyways, imagine when you go to the pump to fill up on gasoline and you swipe your ATM or Credit card that most of those dollars will get transferred to some faceless multinational Oil company. I am not here to bash oil companies or profits, I am just saying most of that money you spend is taken out of your local economy. Much of the oil is drilled in other countries, and since the refining capacity in our country is restricted much of the refining is done over seas. Just look at the staggering number of Tanker Ships swimming around in the ocean.

Now imagine there was a local distillery producing alcohol in your town or your county? You need Water, Heat, Yeast and something for the yeast to eat, some kind of sugar or starch. You could keep all those fuel dollars in your area, in your state, in your country. Instead of money going to Oil Rigs, Exploration, Tanker Ships, Refineries, Pollution controls, Environmental monitoring, etc., It went to local jobs?

Instead of multi-national network subject to hurricanes, terrorists, wars, government impediment, economic growth in China and India and so on, you had one simple none toxic, consistent product. No special blends, just simple alcohol, locally produced? What would that do for you and your family?

Goldenpony

First, Stabil is for storage to keep gas from going "stale".

Virtually all gas, thanks to Uncle Sam, has 10% ethanol. E-85 contains 51% to 83% ethanol and is only for vehicles deemed "flex fuel" capable. You can't really get away from at least the 10% stuff. All you can do is try to buy good fuel. I throw in 20 oz. bottle of Chevron Techron every 5K miles and am not having any problems.

Derf00

Do not use E85 on a car that is not approved for E85. You can argue MGP all day long but at the end of the day, the deciding factor is that if a car is not E85 rated, using E-85 in that car will have it's fuel system damaged. O-rings and other rubber components have to be designed to handle the higher alcohol content.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...amage-engine-2


There are tons more articles and research supporting this.

Even the "Choose Ethanol . com " website (a commercial website) advises against using E85 in a non E85 car.

http://chooseethanol.com/what-is-eth...5-information/

and the EPA...

http://www.humanevents.com/2013/12/2...hanol-mandate/

Most fuels currently have a MAX of 10% ethanol depending on what region you live in and the season. Anything more than that, good luck.