vegas_

Your post is filled with factual falsehoods. I'll point out just a few with backup:

1) The idea that most oil comes from overseas is OBSOLETE. This may have been true in 2000, but NOT in 2014. We will be self sufficient with oil this year, and be a net exporter of oil in 5 years.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/fea...514713250.html
http://www.cnbc.com/id/101087815

2) You cannot overcome the chemistry, A gallon of Ethanol only contains 2/3 of the BTU's of gasoline. (76,000 vs. 115,000) you will need 30 gallons of Ethanol to get you as far as 20 gallons of gasoline.
http://zfacts.com/p/436.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent
If Ethanol was so great, the free market would support it, but the facts are it's simply not economic, so it must be supported by subsidies and political force.

WORKISSLOW

Vegas, I am not sure if you didn't really read my post or the articles you referenced or you just want to pick a fight.

I never said there was't an oil boom going on, but in spite of the fact that oil production in the USA has been rising as demand has been dropping here we still imported over $30 Billion Last year, I don't have to go back to 1991 to support my "falsehoods". In 2012 we imported 40% of petroleum related products and that was the lowest percentage since 1991. How much money has been flowing out of your local economy and the US for the last 20 years? My point was why not keep the money local.
http://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=32&t=6

You might ask your self, since oil production is up and demand had gone down, why is Gasoline so expensive?

That doesn't change the fact that when you buy gasoline at the pump that most of the money leaves your local economy.

If you go back to the beginning of my post I stated that alcohol had less chemical energy then gasoline. So I am not sure where these examples of falsehoods are.

You might ask yourself, since oil production is up and demand had gone down, why is Gasoline so expensive? Prices start about $3.59 a gallon where I live.

vegas_

It IS being kept local in 2014, maybe not 20 years ago, and maybe not in 2012
But we will be self sufficient in 2014, and exporting a few years from now.

The new technology to extract oil is expensive, but actually gasoline prices aren't expensive, adjusted for inflation, Gas is the same as it was in 1980.

?? NO IT DOES NOT Money from gasoline you buy at the pump goes to North Dakota, Texas and Alaska. But not to Iowa, as Ethanol would.

It's a pretty severe distortion. The fact that it contains so much less energy makes it a ridiculous option.

It's only expensive because of higher taxes. You must live in the Peoples Republic of California which has the highest gas taxes in the nation. It's only $2.99 today were I live, and lower in the south. But adjusted for inflation, gas in 1980 was $3.60 a gallon.

Bob T

I'm not even close to being an expert on fuel and all it's properties but I think you have it backwards on octane properties.
The higher the octane the less easily it will ignite which is why you need higher octane in higher compression engines that build more heat and possibly create hot spots in the combustion chamber so the fuel mixture doesn't ignite prior to the sparkplug igniting the fuel mixture.

13V6coupe

All this "adjusted for inflation" bs is just that, if I go by those same stats everyone I know should be earning atleast double what they are, since in 1980 I was earning only about $6k less a year than I do now.
And if I were earning twice as much, and all my friends/family I wouldn't really give a damn if gas was $4 a gallon or $2 a gallon. But currently it stands at $3.299 locally

Higher octane is harder to ignite but burns faster once ignited....I believe to be the case, not ignites easier

vegas_

Wages have nearly tripled since 1980. According to many sources, median household income was ~ $17,500 in 1980, and is ~ $50,000 now.

Even the minimum wage, which has not kept up with inflation,
has gone from $3.10 to $7.25

You can buy gas for under $3/gallon in many states. Some states politicians see gasoline as a way to collect high taxes secretly. People don't notice an blame it on Oil Companies or Arabs, rather than politician who are really to blame.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...s-into-effect/
71.9c per gallon now in Calif

Rudolph Hucker

9 usd a gallon here lads

Bob T

I don't think that is correct, I think higher octane is harder to ignite and burns slower.

This is my understanding of the basic relationship between octane and engine properties, anybody please feel free to correct me on any of these points.

• The higher the octane the harder it is to ignite and the slower it burns.
• The slower the fuel burns the more spark advance you need.
• An efficient combustion chamber will burn the fuel more quickly and more completely and requires less spark advance.
• The more degrees of spark advance an engine requires the more counter productive it is since the more degrees before top dead center the spark ignites the more chance it has to push down on the piston as it's on it's way up instead of pushing on the piston when it's on it's way down.
• To summarize, the best scenario is having an efficient combustion chamber that requires less spark advance, and using a fuel with as low as octane as possible without causing pre-ignition.

13V6coupe

Ford advertises the V6 making 305 hp on premium fuel, it makes less on non premium (87).
So why does it make more power on premium that requires more spark advance if you say that should decrease power?

I also get 2-3 mpg better fuel mileage on premium 93 than crappy 87...noticed the same is true on our brand new 2014 Focus with a 4 banger, 2 tanks of 87 got me 31.4 and 32.1 and 3 tanks of 93 got me 33.5, 34.x and 34.x, oh and it came with E85 in the tank and netted under 27 that first tank. And other than the 30 mile drive home from the dealer all the driving has been very much the same on each tank, 18 miles to work, 18 miles home with the same route at the same time everyday and a grocery/bank run of about 2 miles on each tank. So relatively the 'same" for comparison sake.

Bob T

I re-read my statement and it may sound a little misleading but I still think it's correct. Let me see if I can convince you.

Any engine will require a certain amount of spark advance to make the most power it is capable of, that amount of spark advance requires a certain amount of octane. Any less octane and you have pre-ignition and power falls way off not to mention possible engine damage, except for most of todays engines will automatically pull the timing back to prevent damage but the power still drops off. But there is also no advantage to running a higher octane than what you need.

I'm not saying to run a low octane gas, just not higher than what you need. In this case, what we need is premium.