351Cleveland Swap into Fox Mustang, Whats involved?

88stangaruu · 06-11-2006, 09:49 AM

Is it about the same as a 351 Windsor swap? What about headers? Do the Windsor headers fit a cleveland? , the water pump on Clevelands sticks out a little farther, will that complicat things?

I just picked up a 4 banger mustang and my brother in law is selling me his 73 Cleveland with the 4V heads, etc. I plan on making this my drag car. Im wanting to back it up with an Automatic with a re-enforced 8.8.

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myshifter · 06-11-2006, 12:38 PM

Well I would run a motorplate, cleveland fox headers start at about 500+ dollars. Have you ever built a cleveland or know anything about them? They are nothing like weezors, and for someone without past experience or parts, it can get very expensive. Just cause you got an old one laying around doesn't mean it's the best choice for you. Is that 4V open or closed heads?

88stangaruu · 06-11-2006, 01:03 PM

4V's are Closed heads, 2V's are the later open chamber heads. the 4V's were produced from 1970 - 1974, later the 2V's came on the 351M, 400M, etc. . yes i know alot about building engines, my dad has built them for the past 20+ years and ive helped him since i was little...even if it was " Go get me that wrench." lol. But actually this isnt just an old engine Im starting with a 1973 Cobra Jet 351C out of a 73 Mach 1, 351C's are very good motors but the stock displacement doesnt really take advantage of the large port heads so im probably going to stroke it to a 408, go lightly over the heads with a air grinder and put a built C4 in behind it. Maybe run a .570ish lift cam. Ill prob look into that motor plate idea, but im wondering if that'll put my headers out to far and maybe hit the fender wall.

P.S...there is a fox stang aroudn here with a cleveland in it, bastard runs like a scared cat.

myshifter · 06-11-2006, 01:42 PM

Quote:

ORIGINAL: 88stangaruu

4V's are Closed heads, 2V's are the later open chamber heads. the 4V's were produced from 1970 - 1974, later the 2V's came on the 351M, 400M, etc. . yes i know alot about building engines, my dad has built them for the past 20+ years and ive helped him since i was little...even if it was " Go get me that wrench." lol. But actually this isnt just an old engine Im starting with a 1973 Cobra Jet 351C out of a 73 Mach 1, 351C's are very good motors but the stock displacement doesnt really take advantage of the large port heads so im probably going to stroke it to a 408, go lightly over the heads with a air grinder and put a built C4 in behind it. Maybe run a .570ish lift cam. Ill prob look into that motor plate idea, but im wondering if that'll put my headers out to far and maybe hit the fender wall.

P.S...there is a fox stang aroudn here with a cleveland in it, bastard runs like a scared cat.

yes I know I been building C's for 15 years, the cobra jet is nothing special, as for that cam, its way to small, better be around 620+ with 250-260 @50, with the motor plate you can put the engine anywhere you want. If its strictly a drag race motor, better take care of the oiling issues and I highly suggest bushing the lifter bores, running the restrictors. Your gonna have to spin it to 7-7500.

FiveLiterRiceEater · 06-11-2006, 03:09 PM

i know of a guy sellin a 351 out of a pantera. its build up pretty bad should i buy it for 4600

myshifter · 06-11-2006, 05:17 PM

Let me just throw some more out there for you. if the heads are still pedestal mount you will need to have them milled, drilled and tapped to accept rocker arm studs, the crane conversion kit will pull right out of the heads with any serious cam. The valves in the head are total junk, multi groove and you will pop the head of them and drop a valve within 15 minutes of it running, use a manley sever duty valve. Also consider running port stuffers if you use a mild cam, avoid the torker intake (junk). Avoid a hydraulic or hydraulic roller cam as they will run out of rpm, use either a solid or a solid roller. Double pin the cam or run the risk of shearing off the single cam dowel pin. If your still ready to run a cleveland, let me know I got many other things that need to be done. If you plan on running a stock bottom end with no mods and spn it to 7000 where they make power expect to find all the bearings in your oil filter

88stangaruu · 06-12-2006, 12:36 PM

Ok, you asked me if they were open or closed heads, so i told you...now you say "Yes i know, ive been building c's for 15+ years" ?

Yes, but anyways, i wasnt coming into this with any apiritions or anything, im not stupid. Ive only built my 306, my old 302 i had, me and my dad together built a 10 second 434 Chevy stroker in our 67 Camaro, not to mention done a 408 stroker swap in my friends 95 cause he blew his 347 nitrous motor and we built that one.. And im not going to be spinning it to 7000, as i said, im going to be stroking it to a 408, its going to be pro street so im not going to need a .620ish lift cam either, thats to much for a street driven car, i dont want to have to use a vaccum pump for power brakes, etc. Yes i am going to take care of the oiling issue to the mains. Im exspecting lots of machine work, the motor is vigin, never been opened since it was assembled in the factory. Building any engine is exspensive, nothing new there. Ive got the building of the engine part covered.

I wrote the thread to cover the actual installation issues, i was wondering if anyone on here has even installed a cleveland into a Fox body. I was wondering about the motor mount positions, etc. Not really concered with building the engine, got everything i need, tools, large garage, etc. Im wanting to know about how it actually fits, is it a bitch to change plugs, etc.

Thanks if anyone can help me on this.

S351R13 · 06-14-2006, 02:41 AM

The install is similar to a 460 as far as difficultly. The biggest problem is the expense of all the parts. It does ad a little bit of weight to the front so you have to change the springs. Headers are pricely so just buy a set from Kooks. Motor mounts are the same as the 302. Justget a set of solid or heavy duty ones if you don't go with a motor plate. . A tubular K-member is a must. If you have a stock k-member and the starter dies you will curse the car! If you plan on going ahead with the project you will need to consider one thing. The heads on a 73 Cobra Jet motor are open chamber. 70 and 71 4V heads are the only production cleveland heads that are closed chamber. If you don't plan on turing the car to 7K then find a set of 70-71 2V heads. They will make more power. Also, someone imports the aussie heads (iron and aluminum) which are better.

88stangaruu · 06-15-2006, 08:50 AM

Thanks S351, thats ALOT of help, i cant find anything about the swap on the net. Ive found two others, a 2V headed one and another 4V headed Cleveland. Im thinking of going with the 2V headed one for the reason of not wanting to spin it to 7K. Im going to be running nitrous on the car. As far as how much im not sure. Nothing radical. But im hovering around .600lift on a cam. Im going with a automatic with trans break. Im definatly stroking it to a 408 with forged H beam rods, etc. The usuals. If its not a 4 bolt im going to have it drilled and fitted for a 4 bolt. and im going to run a main girdle. Clevelands are pretty easy to find still around here.

But thanks, thats the kinda info i was wanting, that helped me out alot.

Oh and as far as the open chambers go, i guess ill just get some pistons to run around what compression i want. Ill figure it out. But thanks.

50TTop · 06-27-2006, 12:41 AM

I see several posts on the 351C swap so maybe someone can help me - I have an 82 GT with this combo - the engine runs the original serpentine belt setup - problem is that the water pump is now rotating counter clockwise like the late 5.0's do and cavitating - Kaufmann engineering used to make a pump for this specific application but they must be out of business because I can't find any contact info for them, do any of you know where I might be able to find a pump or what else I can do short of trying to go to a v-belt set up ??? BTW - My car was swapped to this set up in about 1984 - it's a 351C 4V with Open chamber heads - 290 Deg Isky cam and Edelbrock intake and custom headers - I just installed a T-5 and am trying to resolve this pump issue - if any one has any questions about the swap I can answer or would like a few pic's let me know. Thanks