weighing options twin turbo vs cammed intercooled x-charger

[Legion5]

What hp does the PH's turbo kit put down as a stand alone when boosted to a comparable safety net level to the one mentioned here?

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[rygenstormlocke]

I can give you ET's. At 8.5lbs, I was getting 12.8's out of it. At 10.3lbs, I was getting 12.4's out of it. Lance got 12.2 out of it at 11, and got 11.9 out of it at 13lbs. I got 11.7's out of it at 13lbs, but that was with PH heads and cams on top of that. Then I went 10.9 with 16lbs (17psi spring) and 75 shot. Brumby is running 12.0, not sure what boost level he is at. Lance went 11.02 with 15lbs and a 75 shot. Joey (armycook) went 11.4 with I think, 17lbs and 75 shot.

Basically, its an easy 12 second kit. And high 11's are doable with the right supporting mods.

[Legion5]

Yeah I'd say that the single turbo is in line with the twin turbo I mentioned but probably a better kit that i'll probably go with if I choose the turbo. With what you're saying I could expect 11.9s on the turbo and judging from other x-charged cars 12.2s with the X using all the above mods like cams and intercooler which no one thus far has done, (assuming the same well done drivetrain between both cars). However I know the X will be safe at 12 psi, I'm worried the single turbo might have issues with blowing the engine at 12, 10-11 psi might be a better target at which point they become comparable with the turbo winning out over the X.

Would you say this last statement is valid.

[rygenstormlocke]

The turbo is fine at 12psi, single or dual. Boost is boost. The X is not going to get you low 12's unless you juice it, or if an IC comes out. Just not in the cards.

[Legion5]

Well not exactly, I'm familiar with turbos on other cars and you can't run as much boost on a turbo as you can on a supercharger because the air temps from a turbo are much higher due to being exposed to the exhaust gasses, which creates detonation.

Yeah I don't know about 12 psi on the PH turbo, I'm not trying to break any records, except for number of go fast mods included in some theoretical x-charged car. I hope 12 psi was your daily driver and you pushed it hard to say that it's "fine". I know the v6 engine is partly forged so you can do a lot to it, but I already have a weekend toy to potentially blow up, turbos tend to be complicated to install tune and drive so I don't mind difficult work as that shows but here being conservative is my goal and the turbo would have to have that.

thanks so far of course.

[rygenstormlocke]

Originally Posted by Legion5

Well not exactly, I'm familiar with turbos on other cars and you can't run as much boost on a turbo as you can on a supercharger because the air temps from a turbo are much higher due to being exposed to the exhaust gasses, which creates detonation.

Yeah I don't know about 12 psi, I'm not trying to break any records, except for number of go fast mods included in a theoretical x-charged car. I hope 12 psi was your daily driver and you pushed it hard to say that it's "fine". I know the v6 engine is partly forged so you can do a lot to it, but I already have a weekend toy to potentially blow up.

The PH kit comes in 9 and 11 PSI flavors out of the box. Its fine with the 11 or 13psi spring and a conservative tune. The key with heat is to allow for a proper cool down as the 4.0 suffers from heat soak. Now if you are talking street runs, extended duration in high rpm driving, eventually now matter what power adder you have, heat will catch up to you and something will go.

An 11 PSI PH turbo will out run a 12 PSI Xcharger. I'm a fan of the Xcharger, and have driven it on the street and at the track many times, but it is what it is, essentially a MP90 blower with well established power levels.

The 4.0 has the same **** pistons as the 4.6, however we do have forged rods. My rods held up to 600rwtq before they let go but I wouldn't recommend that to anyone.

To cut to the chase, for your goals, I just wouldn't go with the X. You want a big power application, go with the turbo. The X has shown challenges with low CR pistons, P&P heads, etc. It simply can't generate enough boost to take advantage of a built motor. The smallest pulley you can run with it is 2.5, after that, say good bye to efficiency.

[afixer]

i agree with Todd 100% power mongers will never be happy with the x. you will always feel the need for more.
i love the x and am a realist. i got it for the fun street factor and at times find myself pushing the legal street limits. i live in a large city with low speeds. so i don't get to open her up like i would like without taking the chance on getting pulled over or worse.
i have fun at the track when i go but mostly like the smooth power band and the major diff over stock and of course the sexy but OEM look under the hood. of the almost 100 units out there i can think of only a small handful that have not been satisfied but they are also the same type that will never be. once you get used to the power you want more and the need just keeps getting worse.
with all of you questions i would stay away from the x you obviosly want massive power.
that being said we have plenty of respectable track times with xed cars. the just want to have fun not break records

[Legion5]

Well the power doesn't matter to me in ways of make it or break it, as I already have a car that is an absolute monster in it's speed. This is the little guy. So with the X I'd always be at 95% and with the PH i'd be at 105% but that's believe it or not something to genuinely consider.

hp is hp though...

[firestang70]

Legion I'm not sure what you are looking for. Is it 475 hp,track ETs,fun street car? The X is a fine unit, but has its limits. Its a mp90 basically same unit in 03,04 Cobras. The max psi out a PORTED unit is 12-14 max. The Cobra guys then move to a diff FI to get to desired power levels. An IC will make the X more appealing but still has its limits. Several have well traveled this road and the numbers are there. The X with all the supporting mods is a low 13 sec car, add juice (and danger level) 12 s are in the cards. A turbo with a correctly sized unit is the most efficient FI out there. No drag from a belt. Several PH cars have traveled that road as well. If you want a fun street/strip with awesome low end grunt,wicked shriek the X can work for you. If you want a faster car that doesn't sound quite as cool but, want to go faster, turbo may be your choice. Good luck with the mods. Oh and what other car do you have?

[armycook1981]

Todd mine was more like 16-16.5 i think. with only going 1,2,3 gears down the track

But to OP- You want a # then you will need to go a single Turbo route. the roots and centri just wont get it