New user, New mustang need advice
07-31-2016, 04:15 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8
New user, New mustang need advice
Hi guys, I'm pretty new to the forums here, Just got me a mustang, Was looking for a project, just got a little more work than i was anticipating.
Lets start at the beginning, i started looking at mustangs a while back comparing all the years pros/cons, V8 vs. V6 etc, I had originally decided to get an oldschool 95 GT.
But they are so hard to come by these days that it was getting frustrating finding one in decent shape for the money i was willing to pay, I really didn't want a V6.
I looked and looked, and every 95-ish GT that was in good shape the guys were trying to get 5K+ out of and i just didn't feel like that that car was worth that kind of money even in excellent shape.
Looked into 99+ SN95s but i wasn't a huge fan of the 2V and the problem was similar while not as bad, finding one in good enough shape was proving difficult.
By this point i was getting discouraged and even had to consider some of the old Chevy LS stuff, But i came to the conclusion that i just didn't like the body style enough to be satisfied.
And then, Out of nowhere, Comes what appears to be the deal of a lifetime, 2006 Mustang GT full body kit custom "functional" RAM Air Hood, custom paint, shaved doors and 22" wheels (a tad big for me but they look alright) Guy wanted 5K for it, i happened to have an older car the guy was interested in so i ended up getting it for the car + 2k Combined value maybe $4k.
And here come the problems, I would like to say at this point a lot of this is entirely my own fault for not checking and confirming for myself, The car rolls up and looks pretty damn good, sounds decent too albeit a bit loud (just wait) i was feeling very rushed through the whole thing guy claimed he was moving across the country and had another guy going to the bank, So knowing how much time i spent looking for other ones, i felt like i had to make a move if i was going to.
Well after i start examining the car in more detail i discovered that the car wasn't a GT it was a damn V6 (insert laughter here) Yeah its on me i didn't check, The ****in thing was shooting straight pipes (which i didn't know) At the time i figured it sounds pretty beefy.
Moving on, Yeah not a 2006, its a 2005, Like i said i felt pretty rushed through the whole thing and as i have explained was a bit discouraged about other deals i was finding, I let the notary handle all the paperwork as i figured it was their job to verify everything (at least every time i've ever seen them do it they do)
After fuming for a day or so i started to think about it and figured, you know i still got a steal on that thing, Especially with the full kit and wheels, And while it might be a V6 its making about the same power as the 95 GT.
So, trying to embrace the deal, However as i said i wanted a project, its just now much bigger of a project than i wanted, I've been considering my options and the 4.0 SOHC isn't a bad motor at all, but i really would like a bit more power.
If i could get 300RWHP i think i'd be happy, But the 4.0 has almost NO aftermarket with exception of a few extremely priced manufactures, the most disappointing is no cam profiles due to their weird cams, as i'm sure everyone knows about the SSM cams but they are regrinds and i'm not super impressed with what i've seen of them.
So i've been considering what the easiest way to get to 300RWHP, and i've figured a turbo would probably be the way to go, But i'm worried about detonation with the stock hyper- pistons, SSM makes forged pistons but they are so god awful expensive that its not funny, and on top of the money there is a the performance limit on the 4.0 to the point that i'm not sure i want to sink a ton of money in a fully built 4.0.
I was thinking about a aftermarket set of hyper- pistons and maybe a water-meth kit to reduce detonation (however having to fill it all the time would be annoying)
I've also considered a V8 swap, i could possibly pickup a wrecked/salvage 3V GT for a few hundred bucks if i get lucky, this should include everything i would need for the swap motor, ecu, harness, trans, driveshaft, rear diff, and axles, plus some extras like seats etc.
However the obvious thing is it would be an absolute ton of work even having everything from a doner.
Like i say i would be pretty happy with 300RWHP i think, and the 4.0 can do that add in 3.73s and a LSD and it would be enough for the casual street pull. Overall i'm just kinda terrified by the idea (pre) detonation.
So i'm looking for some advice here, from guys that have done both, which is going to be the best road to take here, Will aftermarket "performance" hyper- pistons hold up better to detonation, How much risk of detonation would i have lets say worst case scenario 87 octane stock internals 10 psi single turbo with inter-cooler and somewhere close to 300RWHP.
P.S the one thing i ask is for you not to say (Sell it and buy a GT, Sorry not going through that again)
I thank you all for your advice.
Lets start at the beginning, i started looking at mustangs a while back comparing all the years pros/cons, V8 vs. V6 etc, I had originally decided to get an oldschool 95 GT.
But they are so hard to come by these days that it was getting frustrating finding one in decent shape for the money i was willing to pay, I really didn't want a V6.
I looked and looked, and every 95-ish GT that was in good shape the guys were trying to get 5K+ out of and i just didn't feel like that that car was worth that kind of money even in excellent shape.
Looked into 99+ SN95s but i wasn't a huge fan of the 2V and the problem was similar while not as bad, finding one in good enough shape was proving difficult.
By this point i was getting discouraged and even had to consider some of the old Chevy LS stuff, But i came to the conclusion that i just didn't like the body style enough to be satisfied.
And then, Out of nowhere, Comes what appears to be the deal of a lifetime, 2006 Mustang GT full body kit custom "functional" RAM Air Hood, custom paint, shaved doors and 22" wheels (a tad big for me but they look alright) Guy wanted 5K for it, i happened to have an older car the guy was interested in so i ended up getting it for the car + 2k Combined value maybe $4k.
And here come the problems, I would like to say at this point a lot of this is entirely my own fault for not checking and confirming for myself, The car rolls up and looks pretty damn good, sounds decent too albeit a bit loud (just wait) i was feeling very rushed through the whole thing guy claimed he was moving across the country and had another guy going to the bank, So knowing how much time i spent looking for other ones, i felt like i had to make a move if i was going to.
Well after i start examining the car in more detail i discovered that the car wasn't a GT it was a damn V6 (insert laughter here) Yeah its on me i didn't check, The ****in thing was shooting straight pipes (which i didn't know) At the time i figured it sounds pretty beefy.
Moving on, Yeah not a 2006, its a 2005, Like i said i felt pretty rushed through the whole thing and as i have explained was a bit discouraged about other deals i was finding, I let the notary handle all the paperwork as i figured it was their job to verify everything (at least every time i've ever seen them do it they do)
After fuming for a day or so i started to think about it and figured, you know i still got a steal on that thing, Especially with the full kit and wheels, And while it might be a V6 its making about the same power as the 95 GT.
So, trying to embrace the deal, However as i said i wanted a project, its just now much bigger of a project than i wanted, I've been considering my options and the 4.0 SOHC isn't a bad motor at all, but i really would like a bit more power.
If i could get 300RWHP i think i'd be happy, But the 4.0 has almost NO aftermarket with exception of a few extremely priced manufactures, the most disappointing is no cam profiles due to their weird cams, as i'm sure everyone knows about the SSM cams but they are regrinds and i'm not super impressed with what i've seen of them.
So i've been considering what the easiest way to get to 300RWHP, and i've figured a turbo would probably be the way to go, But i'm worried about detonation with the stock hyper- pistons, SSM makes forged pistons but they are so god awful expensive that its not funny, and on top of the money there is a the performance limit on the 4.0 to the point that i'm not sure i want to sink a ton of money in a fully built 4.0.
I was thinking about a aftermarket set of hyper- pistons and maybe a water-meth kit to reduce detonation (however having to fill it all the time would be annoying)
I've also considered a V8 swap, i could possibly pickup a wrecked/salvage 3V GT for a few hundred bucks if i get lucky, this should include everything i would need for the swap motor, ecu, harness, trans, driveshaft, rear diff, and axles, plus some extras like seats etc.
However the obvious thing is it would be an absolute ton of work even having everything from a doner.
Like i say i would be pretty happy with 300RWHP i think, and the 4.0 can do that add in 3.73s and a LSD and it would be enough for the casual street pull. Overall i'm just kinda terrified by the idea (pre) detonation.
So i'm looking for some advice here, from guys that have done both, which is going to be the best road to take here, Will aftermarket "performance" hyper- pistons hold up better to detonation, How much risk of detonation would i have lets say worst case scenario 87 octane stock internals 10 psi single turbo with inter-cooler and somewhere close to 300RWHP.
P.S the one thing i ask is for you not to say (Sell it and buy a GT, Sorry not going through that again)
I thank you all for your advice.
07-31-2016, 05:25 PM
#2
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
Posts: 1,148
Congrats on the new ride! Go with you're planned upgrades and I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the performance gains. A flat, broad torque curve is the appeal of these motors. Torque is what you want for fun factor. Don't get hung up on HP unless you are planning racing from a roll up to your top mph. FYI, around 113mph the early model's driveshaft universal joints tended to come apart so that is a serious weak point. An aluminum d/s is a nice mod and frees up some power. The piston are tough and based on your stated goals will not be a weak link once you start boosting the power. The 7.5" rear is another weak point when boosting power. Best bet on the rear gears is to do a full 8.8 rear end swap from GT. You will need it if you do go with a power adder.
If you search the forum you will find lots of history on turbo, super charger and nitrous installs with no problems with detonation - when done right and not pushed to the ragged edge. You will need to run super though as I don't think any one tunes for a power adder on regular gas. For starters get a 93 octane performance tune and you will be impressed with the results and ready to plan your next move.
If you search the forum you will find lots of history on turbo, super charger and nitrous installs with no problems with detonation - when done right and not pushed to the ragged edge. You will need to run super though as I don't think any one tunes for a power adder on regular gas. For starters get a 93 octane performance tune and you will be impressed with the results and ready to plan your next move.
Last edited by jimkaray; 07-31-2016 at 05:29 PM. Reason: fix typos
07-31-2016, 06:49 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8
Thank you for your reply, Yeah i had planned on an 8.8 swap as well, Just forgot to put it in the list.
So you think the stock internals will hold up to boost without any major issues?
Yeah i haven't seen any tunes for 87 octane, there is a shop locally that claims they will do custom tunes, But the issue really isn't the tune its the fuel, i wish we could tune for 87, i know i'm being cheap here but I'd sacrifice 10HP for cheaper gas LMAO
But that's something i always knew that was going to be something i had to deal with boost needs octane, That's why i was considering a water-meth kit.
My thinking was 87 octane + water meth should net something like 94-98 octane, But i'm worried about how often i'd have to fill it up.
So you think the stock internals will hold up to boost without any major issues?
Yeah i haven't seen any tunes for 87 octane, there is a shop locally that claims they will do custom tunes, But the issue really isn't the tune its the fuel, i wish we could tune for 87, i know i'm being cheap here but I'd sacrifice 10HP for cheaper gas LMAO
But that's something i always knew that was going to be something i had to deal with boost needs octane, That's why i was considering a water-meth kit.
My thinking was 87 octane + water meth should net something like 94-98 octane, But i'm worried about how often i'd have to fill it up.
07-31-2016, 08:07 PM
#4
Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan again!
Posts: 8,579
Don't worry about a turbo on the stock engine. The 4.0 is really tough and can take a lot of abuse. My 2006 I ran a 75 shot of nitrous for 2 years. Then pulled it off and put the Xcharger Xtreme on it, with 90,000 on the odometer. The car had 203,000 miles on it when I sold it, still running mid 12's. The current owner has 245,000 on it, and it still runs strong.
A friend over at the Mustang Collective has the Powerhouse turbo on his car. Beats it at the track, running over 15lbs of boost with >450 RWHP and a ton of torque. On the stock internals.
A friend over at the Mustang Collective has the Powerhouse turbo on his car. Beats it at the track, running over 15lbs of boost with >450 RWHP and a ton of torque. On the stock internals.
07-31-2016, 09:42 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8
Thank you for your replies.
I feel better about the motor being able to handle boost now, like i say i'm not planing on insane boost levels i doubt i'll even make it to 15PSI
Does anyone think there is any benefit to water-meth for this application, My understanding is it works to supplement your octane as well as cool down the intake.
But for a street car is it worth having, i don't know how often you would have to fill it up/buy the stuff, If we're talking about every few months or more might not be so bad, MAYBE.
But if you burn through it every week then maybe not so much, and if that's the cause when you run it dry i suspect there would be some negative effects
I feel better about the motor being able to handle boost now, like i say i'm not planing on insane boost levels i doubt i'll even make it to 15PSI
Does anyone think there is any benefit to water-meth for this application, My understanding is it works to supplement your octane as well as cool down the intake.
But for a street car is it worth having, i don't know how often you would have to fill it up/buy the stuff, If we're talking about every few months or more might not be so bad, MAYBE.
But if you burn through it every week then maybe not so much, and if that's the cause when you run it dry i suspect there would be some negative effects
08-01-2016, 01:10 PM
#6
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Stroudsburg, PA
Posts: 1,148
Not sure about the meth/water seems like it would work but not really designed for that and probably not really saving any money. Call one of the manufactures tech lines and see what they say. You can get a tune for any octane you like its just power adders that want 93. When you buy a tuner/custom tune package the standard is, or at least was, you get 3 tunes of your choice. You can get an 87 gas saver tune, an 87 performance tune, a torque optimized tune, a 93 race tune, etc,etc.
08-01-2016, 06:54 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8
Not sure about the meth/water seems like it would work but not really designed for that and probably not really saving any money. Call one of the manufactures tech lines and see what they say. You can get a tune for any octane you like its just power adders that want 93. When you buy a tuner/custom tune package the standard is, or at least was, you get 3 tunes of your choice. You can get an 87 gas saver tune, an 87 performance tune, a torque optimized tune, a 93 race tune, etc,etc.
Speaking of tunes and tuners, I'm leaning towards the bama tuner because of the free tunes for life program.
Does the diablosport have any major advantages that you know of? they almost seem like exact copy's of each other to me
Also i'm curious if you have experience with them, I haven't seen them specifically say if they work for F/I applications, Also how much do they give you control over, For example say i want to change the timing over a certain RPM/Boost range are they that in-depth or will they only going to change the base/global value if at all?
Will they allow you to tinker with your tunes or is it load and go with little control?
08-01-2016, 07:09 PM
#8
Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Michigan again!
Posts: 8,579
yeah I'm just going to have to suck it up, only gonna cost me like $5-$8 more per fill-up anyway so not that big of a deal.
Speaking of tunes and tuners, I'm leaning towards the bama tuner because of the free tunes for life program.
Does the diablosport have any major advantages that you know of? they almost seem like exact copy's of each other to me
Also i'm curious if you have experience with them, I haven't seen them specifically say if they work for F/I applications, Also how much do they give you control over, For example say i want to change the timing over a certain RPM/Boost range are they that in-depth or will they only going to change the base/global value if at all?
Will they allow you to tinker with your tunes or is it load and go with little control?
Speaking of tunes and tuners, I'm leaning towards the bama tuner because of the free tunes for life program.
Does the diablosport have any major advantages that you know of? they almost seem like exact copy's of each other to me
Also i'm curious if you have experience with them, I haven't seen them specifically say if they work for F/I applications, Also how much do they give you control over, For example say i want to change the timing over a certain RPM/Boost range are they that in-depth or will they only going to change the base/global value if at all?
Will they allow you to tinker with your tunes or is it load and go with little control?
08-02-2016, 12:01 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8
Hmm, Yeah I'll probably go with the Bama SCT, But i'm wondering here if the "free tunes for life this is going to do me any good.
Based on this info here.
http://www.bamaperformance.com/artic...t_id=200052259
It's not very specific on if it is or isn't supported, the way its worded, it has sorta left the answer up for interpenetration, I'm amusing however that Bama does NOT tune for aftermarket F/I If that is the case, Then i don't see that the free tunes for life program would benefit me at all, Because after i install a turbo then Bama will not provide tunes for it.
In Which case, i could save some money on a used Bama SCT, Unless I'm missing something here, But i don't think i am, it wouldn't be possible for me to have a shop tune for the turbo but still receive additional tunes from Bama, Would it
Based on this info here.
http://www.bamaperformance.com/artic...t_id=200052259
- Non-Stock Forced Induction
It's not very specific on if it is or isn't supported, the way its worded, it has sorta left the answer up for interpenetration, I'm amusing however that Bama does NOT tune for aftermarket F/I If that is the case, Then i don't see that the free tunes for life program would benefit me at all, Because after i install a turbo then Bama will not provide tunes for it.
In Which case, i could save some money on a used Bama SCT, Unless I'm missing something here, But i don't think i am, it wouldn't be possible for me to have a shop tune for the turbo but still receive additional tunes from Bama, Would it