code3GT

I still haven't seen any proof of these 400+ HP 2V's that are very streetable. Also, are we talkin' RWHP or at the crank? A 4V is very easily done, but a high RWHP 2V streetcar isn't too common.

jersey98gt

you know what the sad thing about this is, is that i was in a 350whp civic today a 4cyl...half the pistons i was amazed

2000GT4.6

Its not just a matter of anywhere at anytime, its doing so with decent MPG and without having to deal with a big cam, crap for low end torque, etc etc.

Your going to still have to increase the agressiveness of your cam profiles etc to make more power, even with the big bore kit. The big bore kits are completely insane cost wise, and I have yet to see one single forum member acutally get one and see gains. I am sorry, but to the OP there is simply NO way your seeing a 20 WHP gain or anywhere close to it on a stock motor... there just isn't that much there.

keep in mind that for some reason (not sure why) there really isn't a FI 2v on the board that is acutally seeing alot of track time like you guys are, and most of them are simple blower/exhaust only combos with no suspension work. Your heading out to the track once a week it seems like, with plenty of suspension work and the time to get it all setup and working correctly. Not to mention there is only ONE non stock shortblock blower car up there.

None of the FI 2v cars on the list are seeing crap for 60' times... and thats what a 1/4 mile race at the strip is all about. I have no doubt if I could manage to hit the track twice a month I would be going low 12s/high 11s now pretty easy... unfortunatly its not the case. Simply put, a simple boltons/blower car making 400ish WHP should go low 12s/high 11s with ease on MT drag radials pretty easy, your only taking about a 1.7ish 60' time and you have it done easy.

IMO its just a huge waste of time to build the motor for the sake of being N/A. Everyone on the list with a built motor n/a car that is anything close to "fast" is also spraying a pretty healthy shot. If you look at it in that light, aka building the motor to spray it, then it makes since. but building it to make xxx WHP n/a is just dumb... cause it isn't going to make decent power for the $$$ you spend on it.

2000GT4.6

BTW, the argument about "throttle response" being better in a n/a car is total crap, along with the road racing theory. A twin screw car is going to HAND it to any n/a setup on the circle track. A N/A 2v is going to run like crap on the road course, you WANT tons of bottom end TQ to pull you out of the corners. theres no doubt, if I was into road course I would have a twin screw under the hood.

On the throttle response... get into my car and tell me it doesn't have throttle response. Even with no boost under 3K... it still hits hard in 1st and pulls hard thru the entire gear. So far as a roll racing condition.. if i am a moron and start off at 2k no doubt a built motor car will be faster, but so long as you start in boost there is ZERO lag. Your thinking of a turbo setup with lag, it doesn't happen on a blower car.

Just to wrap it all up... its fine to build your 4.6L 2v car... but unless your entire point is to either spray or build it for FI your wasting a TON of money, time, effort, and energy on a car that is going to be constantly outrun by cars with FAR less investment. With an upper limit (being optimistic here) of around 350 WHP for anything close to something you would drive to walmart, there just isn't enough there.

Unless your riding around in a weight reduction car with no a/c, and everything you can think of deleted PLUS a hell of a suspension setup its not going to run faster than a low 12. And in that case, your still in a car with lots of creature comforts gone like the a/c and amps/stereo etc.

I will make a claim, and I will back it up soon enough... I WILL go 11s on stock motor (cam only)in a centri boosted 2v, regardless of weither or not I have to break a stock 8.8 to get there. Show me a n/a setup that can do that, still has a/c and comfortable seats, and gets 21+ mpg on the highway.. and I will still show you a guy that has x3 the money invested that I do.

ZW99GT

I agree with everything you said. It is dumb for one simple reason. I do not think a low-mid 300rwhp car is impressive, and it sure as hell isn't fast.


BTW, I do not have any more suspension work than some of the guys out there. I have Fox springs in the front, and no sway bar. That's it. Not to mention what's bring up the rear of my car[:'(]. Last time I was out I cut a 1.84 and a 1.86 on motor. You can do just as good, if not better in a stockish car with slicks. I personally made a new race tune, and I had a little something in the gas tank, so that might have had something to do with it.

But again, you are right, I get quite a bit of practice.

2000GT4.6

It just needs to be realised that the list in 4.6L isn't exactly complete, or a very good representation, of what a properly setup/driven FI car can do.

If you look at the list alot of the guys with alot slower ETs are comparable in MPH to the faster guys, but the 60' is just not there. Even with all the parts in place it just takes alot of practice to get everything down pat.

hell, MDvaldosta had an almost copy of my setup, and he was running 11.90s on drag radials and 11.50s on slicks with 405 WHP. Its all in the practice, and it has to be strip practice, not on the street.

Lets put it this way, take two cars, keep everything else the same, but put a FI/nitrous 400+ WHP motor in one and a N/A 350 WHP motor in the other... the FI/nitrous car is going to walk away.

Like I said, I am GOING to get back to the track at least a few more times this year now that it has cooled down, unless something unforseen happens. Once I do, its either going to run a high 11 or I am going to break the 8.8 trying.

mfj

well like i said!!! unless ur running more than 30 psi boost on the centri, the twin screw is a lot better. But yeah, if u got an f1R, ur probably gonna be running over 30 psi boost. but a 600 rwhp twinscrew cobra will smoke the **** out of a 600 rwhp procharged cobra. conversation over!

mfj

and i will race and smokethe f1r procharged cobra, if thats what it will take for u to believe me. yes, im officially calling it out!!

incubus1275

this thread is so off topic is not even funny.

no **** a F/I or nitrous car is faster. Thats why its called a power adder. This thread is specific to NON power adders to see what our little square bore 281's can do. Square bore is also absolutly horrible for N/A set ups. If you could destroke the motor you could rev it much high much faster but with 3.55 inches of stroke its hard to do. There are so many motor set ups and everyone has a preference. Power adders are a beautiful thing and I wish i could afford one. But i still would feel bad barely beating a vette with a power adder. I would feel so much more proud of myself if I could make power from something that i built and only uses atmospheric pressure. Ok so you loose some things like A/C...which doesn't work anyway on my car, and low end torque (which i love). It really all comes down to if you care that you have you use power adders to win....

Look at F1 cars, they make 750 hp N/A from 3.0 V8's....so there torque is like 400 ft/lbs...like thats nothing. Sure they used to make over 1300 hp in the 80's running over 5.5 bar (80 psi) from turbo's with a 1.5 liter V8. That comes out to almost 1000 hp per liter. No doubt F/I is the way to go when it comes to making a race car. But we are not talking about making the ultimate race car...lol

And NASCAR...700 hp from small block with no power adders...what do they do? rev like no there.

It really is sad that we have to use power adders acheive 400 hp numbers.

2000GT4.6

I disagree with your statements about RPM potential. Take a look at some of the 4v 4.6 N/A applications out there, there turning 8000+ RPM. The restriction on our 2v for RPM is the head design mainly.

Your talking about completely different applications on the nascar stuff, race car only applications with absolutly no upper spending limit.. just spend the money till the power comes out.

Simply put, lets look at what we have in the 281 CI 2V. We have a low compression, small displacement engine with an OHC design that likes to rev. We have absolutly no aftermarket resource for heads, and the only "worked" heads we have available won't flow over about 230 CFM. Its just not a good setup for a powerful n/a motor.

I just don't get it. WHY do you want to spend MORE money to go slower. Don't give me that "n/a is cooler" crap... run what you brung. Its not going to make you feel better that your n/a when you loose a race. Your in a world of 400 and 500 horsepower stock cars here, (think vette, GT500, etc)you need an advantage on your little 281... and boost it is.

Its time to start thinking like import owners. We dont have the CI, we dont have the aftermarket support for good top end pacakage flow... what we need is boost/nitrous.

Edit: For that matter, if your really set on building a monster n/a mod motor, and you can afford the considerable expense of acutally building this big bore monster, WHY in the name of god would you stick some poor 2v heads on there? Even a bone stock 4v head will perform better, and a ported/polished/worked 4v head with some aftermarket cams, while more expensive, would LAUGH at anything a 2v can do CFM wise, not to mention increased RPM potential. Your talking about going from a 350ish WHP car to a 420+ WHP car with an extra 1000 or so RPM.