checked out the V10 mule....anyone done this?
02-15-2008, 10:29 PM
#21
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Oahu, Hawaii
Posts: 627
RE: checked out the V10 mule....anyone done this?
ORIGINAL: jawsgt
has anyone build a v10 new edge? wuts all involved and wut transmission is used? intake? wut kind of performance could u get out of it?
has anyone build a v10 new edge? wuts all involved and wut transmission is used? intake? wut kind of performance could u get out of it?
02-15-2008, 11:16 PM
#22
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 2,363
RE: checked out the V10 mule....anyone done this?
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
The 3v cranks are forged, the 2v cranks are not to my knowledge. Everyone was excited about the new 3v possibly providing a cheap shortblock solution, but the rods and pistons are still cast. No idea on the V10.
But the V10 in the test mule was not a 411. The mule was nothing more than a 4.6L 2v (I think it was 2v anyway) with 2 extra cyilnders added by splicing together two different head/block/crank etc casts.
So far as the 6.8, its a totally different animal, but ditto for finding parts etc for them.
ORIGINAL: livefast1
i believe the v10 is a 6.8 which clocks in at around a 411, and i would imagine that since most 5.4 cranks are forged even in 2v trim, then the v10 crank would also be forged as it would generally be built for vehicles with more load.
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Forget the weight. Where are you going to find parts for it?
Who is going to grind you a V10 camshaft? V10 intake manifolds? How about a new forged crank? Forget it.
Talking MAJOR expense to do anything but have a stock V10 truck motor in your car. The only thing that you could do easily would be to get the heads ported and worked...and I bet even that would be pricey. IF you could get aftermarket parts for around the same price as 4.6 stuff it would be worth it.. but I don't think thats ever going to happen.
IMO if you could get the parts it would more than make up for the added weight by making more power. The mule car was nothingmore thanthe mustang 4.6 with another 2 cylindersadded. Several magazines did storys on the car, and from what I remeber they took two casts for mustang specific heads, cut and pasted them together. and madethe V10 cast.
Surely adding another 1/4 to the overall displacement would more than make up for the added weight, your talking a 351 CI engine. Not only would it have more displacement, but going to a V10 means that it still has the same CFMflow per CI as a281 V8.A V10 351 should vastly outperform a V8 351 with the same basic heads, and regardless you cannot stroke/bore a4.6 to that size anyway.
Somehow, the engine definatly fits. The video was of a 99-early 01 after all. Not only is it driving, but driving hard, so they must have made some sort of K member to fit... but once again good luck finding one.
Forget the weight. Where are you going to find parts for it?
Who is going to grind you a V10 camshaft? V10 intake manifolds? How about a new forged crank? Forget it.
Talking MAJOR expense to do anything but have a stock V10 truck motor in your car. The only thing that you could do easily would be to get the heads ported and worked...and I bet even that would be pricey. IF you could get aftermarket parts for around the same price as 4.6 stuff it would be worth it.. but I don't think thats ever going to happen.
IMO if you could get the parts it would more than make up for the added weight by making more power. The mule car was nothingmore thanthe mustang 4.6 with another 2 cylindersadded. Several magazines did storys on the car, and from what I remeber they took two casts for mustang specific heads, cut and pasted them together. and madethe V10 cast.
Surely adding another 1/4 to the overall displacement would more than make up for the added weight, your talking a 351 CI engine. Not only would it have more displacement, but going to a V10 means that it still has the same CFMflow per CI as a281 V8.A V10 351 should vastly outperform a V8 351 with the same basic heads, and regardless you cannot stroke/bore a4.6 to that size anyway.
Somehow, the engine definatly fits. The video was of a 99-early 01 after all. Not only is it driving, but driving hard, so they must have made some sort of K member to fit... but once again good luck finding one.
But the V10 in the test mule was not a 411. The mule was nothing more than a 4.6L 2v (I think it was 2v anyway) with 2 extra cyilnders added by splicing together two different head/block/crank etc casts.
So far as the 6.8, its a totally different animal, but ditto for finding parts etc for them.
i wish more people would think out of the box on this forum. it seems like its nothing but prochargers and patriot heads on here.
02-16-2008, 11:07 PM
#24
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12,575
RE: checked out the V10 mule....anyone done this?
ORIGINAL: livefast1
i believe quite a few 5.4 2v cranks are forged during certain years, and there are more than a few companies that produce forged 5.4 pistons (they are the same as 4.6 pistons) and 5.4 rods for a 3v swap. and i believe the 6.8 is still similar to the 4.6/5.4 modular program as im pretty surethe transmission bolt pattern will line up. ive read somewhere that there are a few companies that make the swap headers for this swap so otherwise its pretty much getting the motor to fit and the wiring harness and ecu left which really isnt a big deal.
i wish more people would think out of the box on this forum. it seems like its nothing but prochargers and patriot heads on here.
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
The 3v cranks are forged, the 2v cranks are not to my knowledge. Everyone was excited about the new 3v possibly providing a cheap shortblock solution, but the rods and pistons are still cast. No idea on the V10.
But the V10 in the test mule was not a 411. The mule was nothing more than a 4.6L 2v (I think it was 2v anyway) with 2 extra cyilnders added by splicing together two different head/block/crank etc casts.
So far as the 6.8, its a totally different animal, but ditto for finding parts etc for them.
ORIGINAL: livefast1
i believe the v10 is a 6.8 which clocks in at around a 411, and i would imagine that since most 5.4 cranks are forged even in 2v trim, then the v10 crank would also be forged as it would generally be built for vehicles with more load.
ORIGINAL: 2000GT4.6
Forget the weight. Where are you going to find parts for it?
Who is going to grind you a V10 camshaft? V10 intake manifolds? How about a new forged crank? Forget it.
Talking MAJOR expense to do anything but have a stock V10 truck motor in your car. The only thing that you could do easily would be to get the heads ported and worked...and I bet even that would be pricey. IF you could get aftermarket parts for around the same price as 4.6 stuff it would be worth it.. but I don't think thats ever going to happen.
IMO if you could get the parts it would more than make up for the added weight by making more power. The mule car was nothingmore thanthe mustang 4.6 with another 2 cylindersadded. Several magazines did storys on the car, and from what I remeber they took two casts for mustang specific heads, cut and pasted them together. and madethe V10 cast.
Surely adding another 1/4 to the overall displacement would more than make up for the added weight, your talking a 351 CI engine. Not only would it have more displacement, but going to a V10 means that it still has the same CFMflow per CI as a281 V8.A V10 351 should vastly outperform a V8 351 with the same basic heads, and regardless you cannot stroke/bore a4.6 to that size anyway.
Somehow, the engine definatly fits. The video was of a 99-early 01 after all. Not only is it driving, but driving hard, so they must have made some sort of K member to fit... but once again good luck finding one.
Forget the weight. Where are you going to find parts for it?
Who is going to grind you a V10 camshaft? V10 intake manifolds? How about a new forged crank? Forget it.
Talking MAJOR expense to do anything but have a stock V10 truck motor in your car. The only thing that you could do easily would be to get the heads ported and worked...and I bet even that would be pricey. IF you could get aftermarket parts for around the same price as 4.6 stuff it would be worth it.. but I don't think thats ever going to happen.
IMO if you could get the parts it would more than make up for the added weight by making more power. The mule car was nothingmore thanthe mustang 4.6 with another 2 cylindersadded. Several magazines did storys on the car, and from what I remeber they took two casts for mustang specific heads, cut and pasted them together. and madethe V10 cast.
Surely adding another 1/4 to the overall displacement would more than make up for the added weight, your talking a 351 CI engine. Not only would it have more displacement, but going to a V10 means that it still has the same CFMflow per CI as a281 V8.A V10 351 should vastly outperform a V8 351 with the same basic heads, and regardless you cannot stroke/bore a4.6 to that size anyway.
Somehow, the engine definatly fits. The video was of a 99-early 01 after all. Not only is it driving, but driving hard, so they must have made some sort of K member to fit... but once again good luck finding one.
But the V10 in the test mule was not a 411. The mule was nothing more than a 4.6L 2v (I think it was 2v anyway) with 2 extra cyilnders added by splicing together two different head/block/crank etc casts.
So far as the 6.8, its a totally different animal, but ditto for finding parts etc for them.
i wish more people would think out of the box on this forum. it seems like its nothing but prochargers and patriot heads on here.
Did a little research so I could "look outside the box" :
http://www.fordtrucksonline.com/ford...gine-specs.htm
Its acutally a 415 CI (the new 3v 6.8). It makes peak horsepower (362)at 4750 RPM, which right off the bat tells meit automatically needs a new camshaft just to compete. not only that, but from what I saw on the google search they do not like RPM... which is not the way to make power in a racing car (were not towing trailers with a mustang).
The 6.8 is about 140 pounds heavyer, and about 4 inches longer than the 4.6L supposedly. According to this website there are a few companys making shortie headers for them, but I have to assume they are for use in trucks, not a mustang:
http://www.sullivanperformance.com/Y...tech/tech1.htm
guy on corral talking about trying to do this swap:
http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=835188
Information on the V10 mule, the one the OP was talking about. As I thought I remebered, its a one off from ford, same cyl design etc as 4.6 just with 2 more cyl:
http://www.performance-shop.com/yabb...c=16955.0;wap2
Edit; Lots of BS here, but post 49 is talking about how the stock crank is a split journal configuration that is NOT going to be happy with RPM:
http://www.f150online.com/forums/sho...602&page=4
Basically, it can be done, but it is expensive and time consuming, and the results are, well lets just say "up in the air" and leave it at that. It MIGHT work, but its definatly not going to provide stellar results above a modified 4.6 or 5.4, and the parts on those 2 engine are so much more plentiful and cheap, its hard to justify .
I don't have any problem of going "outside the box" but there is usually a reason that more than one person does something... its because it works and works well.
Wasting lots of money and lots of time for less performance is, IMO, pretty dumb. The 5.4L lightning swap I saw up at KCIR was a perfect example. Sure, he has something that few others have, but it perfomed like **** and threw the balance of the car off. Whats the point of having someone that few/nobody else has if all it is good for is burning 14 second ricers and sitting (not running) at a car show?
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