Replaced my battery and now my car won't Start!?!
04-20-2010, 10:08 AM
#11
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
The plates, both anode and cathode, though slightly differently doped and constructed, are pretty much the same before the initial "forming" charge is applied. This similarity of the plates, and the forming charge, are discussed in this WIKI article. In the first lead-acid storage batteries they were identical...
If the forming charge is applied in reverse polarity the plates will adopt the polarity characteristics of the applied voltage--however because in a modern battery they were made to favour the intended polarity the battery will operate at a level quite less than optimal.
This is extremely rare, in 45+ years of dealing with all sorts of vehicles I have never seen it and have only read that it is possible. Nothing humans do is perfect, as we are all inherently imperfect--just a fancy way of saying "shìt happens"...
As to the meter, I agree 110%. The first thing I do with a new battery, well before installation, is check the voltage and state of charge...
Wierd...the chemistry of a battery just doesnt seem to me like it would take a charge in reverse more than just a tiny bit...It's chemical reaction with the lead and sulfuric acid are designed to work properly in one direction, and one would "think" that each battery is tested before leaving the factory...
The only thing that I have ever heard of for curing a sulphated battery is hooking it up to a battery charger in the "start" mode repeatedly. The high current is "supposed" to break down the accumulated blockages enough to make the battery usable again.
But, again, I still stand by the fact that a meter should have been used first before deciding to starting touching wires backwards...
If the forming charge is applied in reverse polarity the plates will adopt the polarity characteristics of the applied voltage--however because in a modern battery they were made to favour the intended polarity the battery will operate at a level quite less than optimal.
This is extremely rare, in 45+ years of dealing with all sorts of vehicles I have never seen it and have only read that it is possible. Nothing humans do is perfect, as we are all inherently imperfect--just a fancy way of saying "shìt happens"...
As to the meter, I agree 110%. The first thing I do with a new battery, well before installation, is check the voltage and state of charge...
Wierd...the chemistry of a battery just doesnt seem to me like it would take a charge in reverse more than just a tiny bit...It's chemical reaction with the lead and sulfuric acid are designed to work properly in one direction, and one would "think" that each battery is tested before leaving the factory...The only thing that I have ever heard of for curing a sulphated battery is hooking it up to a battery charger in the "start" mode repeatedly. The high current is "supposed" to break down the accumulated blockages enough to make the battery usable again.
But, again, I still stand by the fact that a meter should have been used first before deciding to starting touching wires backwards...
04-20-2010, 10:34 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 7
First off i do have a meter and did check the voltage and it registered 12V. As Far as a battery getting reverse charged IT IS POSSIBLE. when batteries are manufactured they do not have a full 12V charge. According to EXIDE most batteries that come off the line only have a 6V to 9V charge and require charging to give it 12V. there are a few batteries that make it out of the factory with a bad charge because the meters don't always catch everything. its not a full reverse charge. but enough to cause the battery not to operate properly. So to all you guys that think its not possible, your wrong. second, if i bought a used battery my post would have had said " I BOUGHT A USED BATTERY" I don't mind that people post to my posts, but if you don't really understand how electricity works, especially AC Electrical, don't comment on what you don't know.
04-20-2010, 11:37 PM
#13
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,955
First off i do have a meter and did check the voltage and it registered 12V. As Far as a battery getting reverse charged IT IS POSSIBLE. when batteries are manufactured they do not have a full 12V charge. According to EXIDE most batteries that come off the line only have a 6V to 9V charge and require charging to give it 12V. there are a few batteries that make it out of the factory with a bad charge because the meters don't always catch everything. its not a full reverse charge. but enough to cause the battery not to operate properly. So to all you guys that think its not possible, your wrong. second, if i bought a used battery my post would have had said " I BOUGHT A USED BATTERY" I don't mind that people post to my posts, but if you don't really understand how electricity works, especially AC Electrical, don't comment on what you don't know.
no but seriously go comment on my burnt spark plug boot thread in the tech sekction i need helpz.
also i don't know who ^^^ was directed too but cliffy K is probably the most knowlegable member on this site when it comes to electrical and sensors... he used to be a super computer technition that did the wiring for terminator (the arnold movies) and the matrix... or something like that... i may have made that up.
04-21-2010, 03:24 AM
#14
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
First off i do have a meter and did check the voltage and it registered 12V. As Far as a battery getting reverse charged IT IS POSSIBLE. when batteries are manufactured they do not have a full 12V charge. According to EXIDE most batteries that come off the line only have a 6V to 9V charge and require charging to give it 12V. there are a few batteries that make it out of the factory with a bad charge because the meters don't always catch everything. its not a full reverse charge. but enough to cause the battery not to operate properly. So to all you guys that think its not possible, your wrong. second, if i bought a used battery my post would have had said " I BOUGHT A USED BATTERY" I don't mind that people post to my posts, but if you don't really understand how electricity works, especially AC Electrical, don't comment on what you don't know.
04-21-2010, 06:34 AM
#15
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,994
First off i do have a meter and did check the voltage and it registered 12V. As Far as a battery getting reverse charged IT IS POSSIBLE. when batteries are manufactured they do not have a full 12V charge. According to EXIDE most batteries that come off the line only have a 6V to 9V charge and require charging to give it 12V. there are a few batteries that make it out of the factory with a bad charge because the meters don't always catch everything. its not a full reverse charge. but enough to cause the battery not to operate properly. So to all you guys that think its not possible, your wrong. second, if i bought a used battery my post would have had said " I BOUGHT A USED BATTERY" I don't mind that people post to my posts, but if you don't really understand how electricity works, especially AC Electrical, don't comment on what you don't know.
Dude, I was actually feeling apologetic until you wrote this.
for one thing, what F8cking battery have you ever measured that was at 12 v exactly? Most are within a range, usually 12.5-13V. I have never measured a battery below this range that was in good working condition, unless it had a load on it.
Second, if you measure with a meter, in the right F*cking direction, you would have seen a polarity, i.e. it would have been a positive or negative voltage. SO-Genius, if you measured "12V" and the leads were hooked up correctly, you would have seen a negative 12V if the battery truly was reverse charged. If you saw a positive, you are either retard, or lying.
Next, the honorable Cliff Knight, has forgotten more than you will ever learn, the man is a veritable genius, and has a plethora of knowledge to share, did I mention MIT in there? And no I'm not talking about an oven mit jacka$$.
I'm no tard either, I have degree in electronics engineering myself.
Lastly, WTF DOES AC HAVE TO DO WITH THIS THREAD??!!!
/rant
Last edited by devongarver; 04-21-2010 at 07:04 AM.
04-21-2010, 02:01 PM
#16
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,955
WTF...
Dude, I was actually feeling apologetic until you wrote this.
for one thing, what F8cking battery have you ever measured that was at 12 v exactly? Most are within a range, usually 12.5-13V. I have never measured a battery below this range that was in good working condition, unless it had a load on it.
Second, if you measure with a meter, in the right F*cking direction, you would have seen a polarity, i.e. it would have been a positive or negative voltage. SO-Genius, if you measured "12V" and the leads were hooked up correctly, you would have seen a negative 12V if the battery truly was reverse charged. If you saw a positive, you are either retard, or lying.
Next, the honorable Cliff Knight, has forgotten more than you will ever learn, the man is a veritable genius, and has a plethora of knowledge to share, did I mention MIT in there? And no I'm not talking about an oven mit jacka$$.
I'm no tard either, I have degree in electronics engineering myself.
Lastly, WTF DOES AC HAVE TO DO WITH THIS THREAD??!!!
/rant
Dude, I was actually feeling apologetic until you wrote this.
for one thing, what F8cking battery have you ever measured that was at 12 v exactly? Most are within a range, usually 12.5-13V. I have never measured a battery below this range that was in good working condition, unless it had a load on it.
Second, if you measure with a meter, in the right F*cking direction, you would have seen a polarity, i.e. it would have been a positive or negative voltage. SO-Genius, if you measured "12V" and the leads were hooked up correctly, you would have seen a negative 12V if the battery truly was reverse charged. If you saw a positive, you are either retard, or lying.
Next, the honorable Cliff Knight, has forgotten more than you will ever learn, the man is a veritable genius, and has a plethora of knowledge to share, did I mention MIT in there? And no I'm not talking about an oven mit jacka$$.
I'm no tard either, I have degree in electronics engineering myself.
Lastly, WTF DOES AC HAVE TO DO WITH THIS THREAD??!!!
/rant
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