4.6L (1996-2004 Modular) MustangTechnical discussions on 1996-2004 4.6 Liter Modular Motors (2V and 4V) within. Sponsored by Cruizin Concepts
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I wanna start off by saying I am EXTREMELY disappointed and frankly starting to get pissed about what happened today.
So after collecting parts for a new clutch setup for several months now (mainly putting it off due to other problems in life), I finally decided to take my car in to get a new clutch setup installed:
Those are $700 worth in parts.
I had it all installed eariler today and immediately I am having a few problems. Everytime I let the clutch pedal out and have the clutch engage, the transmission will rattle. You can see the shift **** rattling with it. It is most appearent when the car is at a stand-still and I put it in first gear and try to take off. I can replicate it best by trying to get the car rolling in 1st without giving it ANY gas at all. So usually you would just let the clutch out very slowly and let it slip and build momentum and get the car moving correct? Well when I do this, my entire transmission and shifter would vibrate/rattle moderately badly.
To put it short, I took my car to a guy I haven't worked with before but was highly recommened to by several buddies of mine. I don't want to make any direct accusations yet, but I did observe a few potentially alarming things occur:
1. I am extremely upset about this one. He used some kind if pulley puller to try and remove my stock pilot bearing. He managed to get 1/2 of it out and then he said it was stuck. He then used an impact gun with some kind of long attachment and went at it for a good 5-10minutes. I was sitting further back at the end of the shop so I wasn't upclose to see exactly what he was doing. All I know is he eventually got the pilot bearing out but it was literally SHREADED into pieces and the lip around the pilot bearing insert on the end of the crankshaft was scratched/scrapped up. I then got up close and took a look at it. It didn't look VERY bad but it was bad enough that when he tried to seat the flywheel, the hole in the center of the flywheel would not slip over the cylindrical piece of the crankshaft with the pilot bearing in the middle. He ended up having to file down a bit of the scrape away so the flywheel would sit.
2. He torqued the flywheel down with a torque wrench but then I realized (too late) that he later mounted the pressure plate on with a really loud impact gun. I did some browsing just now and appearantly the pressure plate it only supposed to go on at 33lb/ft + a 60* turn or a total of 40-50ish lb/ft. The pressure plate bolts are most likely extremely overtightened. Could this be the cause of the problem?
What do you guys think? A friend of mine loosely suggested that the problem I am describing sounds symptomatic of a very "grabby" clutch. He said (and he has one as well) the OEM 03 cobra clutch is not known as a very "grabby" clutch but because the flywheel I chose was a chromoly one, he could have had a very high friction property. I told him I doubt it since I have heard of chromoly flywheels being used before, and the one I used in particular was recommened by someone on this board.
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Last edited by StriderTacticaL; 01-12-2011 at 02:37 AM.
Well during the break in process you should notice more "grabbiness" and clutch chatter till it is broken in but the extent to which what you are expereince sounds like to me the flywheel surface and clutch surface was properly cleaned or was installed "dirty", which at first would cause severe grabiness but will lead to slippage and premature clutch failure.With the pilot bearing they can be a real PITA to get out, when i did mine a slide hammer wouldnt work and either would the grease trick. I picked up a pilot bearing tool from harbor freight and after 45 minutes of attempets it finally worked, but i did have to chisel out the inner race to get the tool to fit in, but I would NEVER try to chisel between the outer race and the crankshaft thats a very *** backwards thing to do. The damage to your crankshaft may just be superficial but its just the point of the matter.
Street Car, 4v D1sc, 20psi,viper spec t56, Team Z/ UPR suspension. SKELETON CREW RACING
The pilot bearing issue is common--after using a slide hammer and then the "hydraulic" method failed to remove mine, I had to go at it with an air chisel to smash it apart. This inevitably nicks the crank bore a bit, which I cleaned up with a dremel tool. As long as there is no extensive damage 99% of the lip's centering function remains. The flywheel does have to seat full and true of course.
Did he install new locating dowels, or move them over from the old flywheel?
If not then bring it back and make him do it right, they are 110% necessary to ensure the pressure plate assembly is properly centered.
Other possible issues are cleanliness related; removing the protective coatings from the flywheel and pressure plate--meaning use of solvent and a clean rag, not just wiping them off with this week/month's general purpose rag--and making sure the disc if not contaminated with oil/grease/dirty hands.
Sometimes a bit of "abuse" applied to a new grabby clutch will smooth things out. Not wild burning the crap out abuse, but several moderate starts and riding the clutch to let it slip a bit.
how many dowel pins should be on a stock 03 GT flywheel?? if i remember right, my flywheel only had 2 on it when i pulled it... which means that the guy at aamco that rebuilt my trans lost/damaged one and didnt tell me, or it fell out somehow?
I would go ahead and say you're dealing with a little bit of clutch chatter. I'd give it 500 miles before I go condemning any part or install just yet. Clutch jobs are so finicky somtimes.. I did a clutch in my friends 94 cobra, he got a ZOOM HD... it was complete garbage. After gettin an adjustable cable and firewall adjuster the pedal felt like crap and it chattered its *** off. Then a week later the TOB fell apart. Ended up installing the old OEM clutch back with a new ford tob and left the adjustable cable in.
But anyway like I said give it a few hundred miles to see if it goes away.
Thanks for the replies. Yeah we used the dowel pins. I bought a new pressure plate bolt kit from Ford and it came with new dowel pins. He did initially say that they fit the flywheel kind of loose so I told him the Ralco flywheel came with their own dowel pins so maybe he wanted to try those? He then said he hammered the Ford ones in again and they fit tight enough. I was standing next to him as he mounted on the pressure plate over the dowel pins
hmmm. That seems kinda like clutch chatter. When I installed my clutch with the short block i had a lot of clutch chatter but when I reinstalled it with my heads/cams I didn't notice any so IDK what that indicates but just give it some time like doug said.
I really don't think it should be doing this new or not...especially with an OEM 03 Cobra clutch. I really don't think there was anything wrong with my flywheel either.
What do you guys think is likely the cause? I know for a fact I sprayed the flywheel with some brakecleaner and wiped it down a bit but i'm not sure if it was resprayed and wiped clean again right before the clutch disc was lined up against it. I also don't know and frankly don't think the pressure plate was properly sprayed down and wiped.
I also know for a FACT that the pressure plate was hit with a loud impact gun...don't even know if it was done in a cross pattern. I read that it is crucial for the pressure plate to be torqued down properly and the specs for our cars is 33ft/lbs and then given a 60* turn after. Could this be it? As a matter of fact, every goddamn bolt on the car relating to the install was installed/removed with a damn impact wrench except for the flywheel bolts and the starter bolts. I shoulda said something but I trusted the dude.
I am really pissed off to be honest. I spent all this money on the parts and I was really excited to run this setup since my TOB has been squealing for over a year and I periodically went under the car to spray it with some grease to buy time. I was putting off the install because I've been busy with life issues. I have lots of problems with the car I am trying to fix one at a time and now it seems like I likely could have flushed all my money down the toilet and then some. I just wanna know which part of the install could likely have caused this so I can have some reasonable basis before I start making accusations.
Last edited by StriderTacticaL; 01-12-2011 at 08:23 AM.
not sure this will help or not, but my stock clutch is relatively smooth. your shifter is shaking like crazy! that definitely doesn't look normal to me. i'm not an expert by any means but i've never seen the shifter shake like that after a new clutch was installed, regardless of its grip qualities.
Improper/uneven torquing of the PP to the flywheel can distort the assembly.
Also the PP bolts should be screwed in a bit at a time, evenly, in a cross-pattern, to prevent the PP cover from getting warped. Once the PP cover has fully contacted the flywheel the bolts can be torqued.
I have over 1000 miles on the clutch now and the TOB is loud as hell and the rattle has gotten better but is still there.
I took my car back to the guy and basically he said he was is willing to change my TOB for me for free and remove the pressure plate to take a look to see how it looks and will even torque it on properly the way I want it done. He ordered a replacement clutch to sit at his shop incase it needs to be replaced, BUT,
I showed him the problem and I let him drive the car and he conclusively thinks the rattling is just from a grabby clutch. Because it don't rattle if I rev a lot higher than I did with the stock clutch while rolling off the clutch pedal when I take off from a standstill.
I told him that everyone I've heard running this clutch never complained of these problems. He basically said it's the combination of the clutch and the flywheel....and so it may also be the chromoly flywheel. I couldn't really say much since I don't know of anyone else running this exact same clutch and flywheel combo (OEM 03 Cobra clutch and a Ralco RZ chromoly lightened flywheel).
So my question is, could my problems just simply be from a grabby clutch? What are all th symptoms that point to this and not an improper install?
When he pulls the pressure plate, I think as long as we don't see any hotspots or anything visual to the eye, he may just think it's ok. Anything I can look out for?
^^ Here's another video soon after the first one. It was taken with the clutch had about 80mi and now it has over 1000 and so the rattling isn't quite that bad anymore but it's still basically the same.
Last edited by StriderTacticaL; 02-04-2011 at 06:08 PM.
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