Search



Go Back   MustangForums.com > Ford Mustang Tech > 4.6L (1996-2004 Modular) Mustang
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search

4.6L (1996-2004 Modular) Mustang Technical discussions on 1996-2004 4.6 Liter Modular Motors (2V and 4V) within.
Sponsored by Cruizin Concepts


Welcome to Mustang Forums!
Welcome to Mustang Forums.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!


Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-11-2011, 12:05 AM   #1
StriderTacticaL
4th Gear Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Vehicle: '04 Mustang GT
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 1,841
Default New clutch problems

I wanna start off by saying I am EXTREMELY disappointed and frankly starting to get pissed about what happened today.

So after collecting parts for a new clutch setup for several months now (mainly putting it off due to other problems in life), I finally decided to take my car in to get a new clutch setup installed:

Click the image to open in full size.

Those are $700 worth in parts.

I had it all installed eariler today and immediately I am having a few problems. Everytime I let the clutch pedal out and have the clutch engage, the transmission will rattle. You can see the shift **** rattling with it. It is most appearent when the car is at a stand-still and I put it in first gear and try to take off. I can replicate it best by trying to get the car rolling in 1st without giving it ANY gas at all. So usually you would just let the clutch out very slowly and let it slip and build momentum and get the car moving correct? Well when I do this, my entire transmission and shifter would vibrate/rattle moderately badly.

To put it short, I took my car to a guy I haven't worked with before but was highly recommened to by several buddies of mine. I don't want to make any direct accusations yet, but I did observe a few potentially alarming things occur:

1. I am extremely upset about this one. He used some kind if pulley puller to try and remove my stock pilot bearing. He managed to get 1/2 of it out and then he said it was stuck. He then used an impact gun with some kind of long attachment and went at it for a good 5-10minutes. I was sitting further back at the end of the shop so I wasn't upclose to see exactly what he was doing. All I know is he eventually got the pilot bearing out but it was literally SHREADED into pieces and the lip around the pilot bearing insert on the end of the crankshaft was scratched/scrapped up. I then got up close and took a look at it. It didn't look VERY bad but it was bad enough that when he tried to seat the flywheel, the hole in the center of the flywheel would not slip over the cylindrical piece of the crankshaft with the pilot bearing in the middle. He ended up having to file down a bit of the scrape away so the flywheel would sit.

2. He torqued the flywheel down with a torque wrench but then I realized (too late) that he later mounted the pressure plate on with a really loud impact gun. I did some browsing just now and appearantly the pressure plate it only supposed to go on at 33lb/ft + a 60* turn or a total of 40-50ish lb/ft. The pressure plate bolts are most likely extremely overtightened. Could this be the cause of the problem?


What do you guys think? A friend of mine loosely suggested that the problem I am describing sounds symptomatic of a very "grabby" clutch. He said (and he has one as well) the OEM 03 cobra clutch is not known as a very "grabby" clutch but because the flywheel I chose was a chromoly one, he could have had a very high friction property. I told him I doubt it since I have heard of chromoly flywheels being used before, and the one I used in particular was recommened by someone on this board.


Thanks
This ad is not displayed to registered or logged-in members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Mustang Forums!
__________________
04 GT

Last edited by StriderTacticaL; 01-12-2011 at 02:37 AM.
StriderTacticaL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 12:27 AM   #2
zero2005
4th Gear Member
 
zero2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Vehicle: 2003 Mustang GT
Location: NJ / MA
Posts: 1,335
Default

is that a ralco RZ chromoly flyhweel? what clutch is that, OEM cobra?

think i'd take it back to the shop to find out whats up, might wanna let them know now that you think its messed up.
__________________
2003 Mustang GT, 5-spd, TurboCharged
On3Performance Turbo kit (MasterPower T70, .68 A/R)
QA1 tubular front end, QA1 C/O struts (GARBAGE! AVOID QA1!)
MMR750, MHS stage 1 heads, stage 2 turbo cams, Spec stage 2+
Megasquirt firing LS1 truck coils. Edelbrock Vic Jr & Holley 4778 Carb.
She Breathes!

1989 Camaro RS, 305 TBI, 700r4 - few mods, current DD
next project... (LQ4 swap, megasquirt, ford 8.8, and double wishbone front-end?)
zero2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 05:12 AM   #3
uberstang1
Chupacabra
 
uberstang1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Vehicle: 1997 Mustang GT, 2002 F150 XLT 4x4 Triton
Location: wilkes-barre PA
Posts: 9,205
MustangSVT97r
Send a message via AIM to uberstang1 Send a message via Yahoo to uberstang1
Default

Well during the break in process you should notice more "grabbiness" and clutch chatter till it is broken in but the extent to which what you are expereince sounds like to me the flywheel surface and clutch surface was properly cleaned or was installed "dirty", which at first would cause severe grabiness but will lead to slippage and premature clutch failure.With the pilot bearing they can be a real PITA to get out, when i did mine a slide hammer wouldnt work and either would the grease trick. I picked up a pilot bearing tool from harbor freight and after 45 minutes of attempets it finally worked, but i did have to chisel out the inner race to get the tool to fit in, but I would NEVER try to chisel between the outer race and the crankshaft thats a very *** backwards thing to do. The damage to your crankshaft may just be superficial but its just the point of the matter.
__________________
Street Car, 4v D1sc, 20psi,viper spec t56, Team Z/ UPR suspension.
SKELETON CREW RACING
uberstang1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 10:02 AM   #4
cliffyk
TECH SAVANT

 
cliffyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Vehicle: 1998 SL500
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,891
Default

The pilot bearing issue is common--after using a slide hammer and then the "hydraulic" method failed to remove mine, I had to go at it with an air chisel to smash it apart. This inevitably nicks the crank bore a bit, which I cleaned up with a dremel tool. As long as there is no extensive damage 99% of the lip's centering function remains. The flywheel does have to seat full and true of course.

Did he install new locating dowels, or move them over from the old flywheel?

Click the image to open in full size.

If not then bring it back and make him do it right, they are 110% necessary to ensure the pressure plate assembly is properly centered.

Other possible issues are cleanliness related; removing the protective coatings from the flywheel and pressure plate--meaning use of solvent and a clean rag, not just wiping them off with this week/month's general purpose rag--and making sure the disc if not contaminated with oil/grease/dirty hands.

Sometimes a bit of "abuse" applied to a new grabby clutch will smooth things out. Not wild burning the crap out abuse, but several moderate starts and riding the clutch to let it slip a bit.
__________________
-cliff knight-
SOLD! - 2003 GT, UPR X, FRPP 24lb/h, Magnaflow, PP 70mm TB & plenum,
Delta Force tuned, Steeda UDPs, Ralco flywheel,
RAM HDX clutch, 3.73s, 262 rwHP/305 lb-ft.

New ride (7/1/2013) 1998 Mercedes SL500-5.0L 32V VVT 326/347 HP/tq


Engineering is, at its base, making what you want from what you have.
At its extreme it is making what you want from what you can get.
cliffyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 10:42 AM   #5
zero2005
4th Gear Member
 
zero2005's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Vehicle: 2003 Mustang GT
Location: NJ / MA
Posts: 1,335
Default

how many dowel pins should be on a stock 03 GT flywheel?? if i remember right, my flywheel only had 2 on it when i pulled it... which means that the guy at aamco that rebuilt my trans lost/damaged one and didnt tell me, or it fell out somehow?
__________________
2003 Mustang GT, 5-spd, TurboCharged
On3Performance Turbo kit (MasterPower T70, .68 A/R)
QA1 tubular front end, QA1 C/O struts (GARBAGE! AVOID QA1!)
MMR750, MHS stage 1 heads, stage 2 turbo cams, Spec stage 2+
Megasquirt firing LS1 truck coils. Edelbrock Vic Jr & Holley 4778 Carb.
She Breathes!

1989 Camaro RS, 305 TBI, 700r4 - few mods, current DD
next project... (LQ4 swap, megasquirt, ford 8.8, and double wishbone front-end?)
zero2005 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 10:48 AM   #6
cliffyk
TECH SAVANT

 
cliffyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Vehicle: 1998 SL500
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,891
Default

Three, as the diagram shows--two would be adequate (barely), but not correct.

Ford did not machined and install three just to make it cost more...
__________________
-cliff knight-
SOLD! - 2003 GT, UPR X, FRPP 24lb/h, Magnaflow, PP 70mm TB & plenum,
Delta Force tuned, Steeda UDPs, Ralco flywheel,
RAM HDX clutch, 3.73s, 262 rwHP/305 lb-ft.

New ride (7/1/2013) 1998 Mercedes SL500-5.0L 32V VVT 326/347 HP/tq


Engineering is, at its base, making what you want from what you have.
At its extreme it is making what you want from what you can get.
cliffyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 11:27 AM   #7
98redstang
5th Gear Member

 
98redstang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Vehicle: 1998, Ford Mustang
Location: NJ
Posts: 2,312
Default

As far as the clutch noise youll have to see the shop but the shaking could be the trans mount. Its only a like hard rubber material and they can break. I would have them check that as well.
__________________


70 trim garret
XE 274 comp cams
P&P heads w/oversize valves
5.0 Forged Teksid Stroker
Victory Jr. Intake
4.10s/Pro 5.0/31 Moser rear
Custom turbo manifolds
3 in downpipe
MM-LCAs-SFCs
Eibach Drag Springs
Lakewood 90/10 Struts
Hoosier Slicks on weld draglites
soon to come:
8 point cage
98redstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 12:39 PM   #8
0949er
4th Gear Member

 
0949er's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Vehicle: 2004 Mustang GT
Location: NC
Posts: 1,909
Default

I put the same clutch in my car and I can tell you this:

At "LOW" rpms (like 5th gear and 45 MPH) while the clutch is engaged, I can hear some shaking rattling w/ my OEM cobra clutch (that was not there with the stock GT clutch)

I don't really notice it from a standstill, but I can "hear" it if I am chugging at low rpms in 5th
__________________

MODS:
Vortech V1 T-Trim @ 7 PSI (tuned down)
Comp Cam Stage 2's (XE 270AH)
+ more (See Garage)

432 wrhp / 397 wrtq NOT FAST ENOUGH!!!
NEW VIDEOS!!!!!
**It takes ~$60 a rwhp (over stock) for a 99-04 Mustang GT.** Do the Math
0949er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 02:48 PM   #9
WhiteFoxGT
Resident Ford Troll
 
WhiteFoxGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Vehicle: 98 Cobra
Location: Delaware
Posts: 5,805
Default

I would go ahead and say you're dealing with a little bit of clutch chatter. I'd give it 500 miles before I go condemning any part or install just yet. Clutch jobs are so finicky somtimes.. I did a clutch in my friends 94 cobra, he got a ZOOM HD... it was complete garbage. After gettin an adjustable cable and firewall adjuster the pedal felt like crap and it chattered its *** off. Then a week later the TOB fell apart. Ended up installing the old OEM clutch back with a new ford tob and left the adjustable cable in.

But anyway like I said give it a few hundred miles to see if it goes away.
WhiteFoxGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 06:27 PM   #10
StriderTacticaL
4th Gear Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Vehicle: '04 Mustang GT
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Posts: 1,841
Default

Thanks for the replies. Yeah we used the dowel pins. I bought a new pressure plate bolt kit from Ford and it came with new dowel pins. He did initially say that they fit the flywheel kind of loose so I told him the Ralco flywheel came with their own dowel pins so maybe he wanted to try those? He then said he hammered the Ford ones in again and they fit tight enough. I was standing next to him as he mounted on the pressure plate over the dowel pins
__________________
04 GT
StriderTacticaL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2011, 06:27 PM
MustangForums
Ford Mustang




Paid Advertisement

 
 
 
Reply

Tags
00, 94, bearing, chromoly, clutch, faults, flywheel, ford, frieght, grabby, gt, gun, harbor, impact, mustang, pilot, shift, tool, wont

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

Advertising

Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory
New Sponsors
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 AM.

© Internet Brands, Inc.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2

This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company
Emails Backup