Newbie - Be Gentle - 4.6L Knock
06-01-2012, 10:37 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2
Newbie - Be Gentle - 4.6L Knock
Newbie to site so please be gentle. I'm probably posting this thread in wrong section so just point me in the right direction.
I have a 2002 Mustang GT with 160,000 on motor. It has a knock in it and I'm assuming it's rod related.
I'm looking for feedback and/or opinions which route I should go in rebuilding or replacing engine.
I have approximately $3,000 to work with and plan to do as much as the labor myself.
My ultimate goal is to supercharge the engine down the road which I hope will be in 2013 so I want to rebuild/replace engine with that in mind.
ANY feedback and/or opinions to help guide me through this process.
I have a 2002 Mustang GT with 160,000 on motor. It has a knock in it and I'm assuming it's rod related.
I'm looking for feedback and/or opinions which route I should go in rebuilding or replacing engine.
I have approximately $3,000 to work with and plan to do as much as the labor myself.
My ultimate goal is to supercharge the engine down the road which I hope will be in 2013 so I want to rebuild/replace engine with that in mind.
ANY feedback and/or opinions to help guide me through this process.
06-01-2012, 11:06 PM
#2
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ / MA
Posts: 1,337
well, dont wanna "burst" your bubble, but IMO 3000 isnt gunna do it unless you plan on "parting" out a short block (ie building one from scratch basically), and even then you never know where the damage could be until you get it apart, should you pull the trigger on building the bottom end for a supercharger, and it end up being a trans problem, then your gunna be without a motor and a trans, and be in the hole without the cash to finish.
in general, its a good technique to plan everything out, then multiply your costs by two. i thought it'd only cost me my bottom end when i blew my motor, so i splurged a bit before i had the motor apart and got a nice mmr 750, then when i got the thing apart, found out i needed a set of cylinder heads on top. tacked on another 2k. figured if i was gunna do it i want cams ta boot. tack on another 600. thats not including gaskets & bearings.
honestly, to do it in the least amount of time, i say get a full blown longblock, fully assembled ready to go, just drop it in. just my opinion though.
that being said, a block CAN be built for a budget. however, corners may have to be cut, and time may be wasted.
and keep in mind, that even if you build a motor for more than the stock is capable of handling (~400-450 rwhp) you'll need all the additional supporting mods, ie fuel system, tuning, power adder (turbo, supercharger, nitrous). gets expensive real quick.
on top of the planning on twice the cost, plan on way more down time than you think. there's always those little problems that pop up. one that comes to mind that pissed me off was that the short block i ordered had a new style crank it in which requires a newer GT500 balancer pulley crank bolt. noone had this damn bolt within 500 miles, and i had to order, killing about 2 weeks time.
oh and, just wanna add that, why completely build a block, when you havent yet experience what a stock block can output with just a tad bit of juice or boost?, the problem could be as "small" as a timing chain issue, or even a throw out bearing on the trans (well known to be garbage and cause pining, chirping, or knocking)
in general, its a good technique to plan everything out, then multiply your costs by two. i thought it'd only cost me my bottom end when i blew my motor, so i splurged a bit before i had the motor apart and got a nice mmr 750, then when i got the thing apart, found out i needed a set of cylinder heads on top. tacked on another 2k. figured if i was gunna do it i want cams ta boot. tack on another 600. thats not including gaskets & bearings.
honestly, to do it in the least amount of time, i say get a full blown longblock, fully assembled ready to go, just drop it in. just my opinion though.
that being said, a block CAN be built for a budget. however, corners may have to be cut, and time may be wasted.
and keep in mind, that even if you build a motor for more than the stock is capable of handling (~400-450 rwhp) you'll need all the additional supporting mods, ie fuel system, tuning, power adder (turbo, supercharger, nitrous). gets expensive real quick.
on top of the planning on twice the cost, plan on way more down time than you think. there's always those little problems that pop up. one that comes to mind that pissed me off was that the short block i ordered had a new style crank it in which requires a newer GT500 balancer pulley crank bolt. noone had this damn bolt within 500 miles, and i had to order, killing about 2 weeks time.
oh and, just wanna add that, why completely build a block, when you havent yet experience what a stock block can output with just a tad bit of juice or boost?, the problem could be as "small" as a timing chain issue, or even a throw out bearing on the trans (well known to be garbage and cause pining, chirping, or knocking)
Last edited by zero2005; 06-01-2012 at 11:08 PM.
06-03-2012, 10:50 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Alabama
Posts: 2
well, dont wanna "burst" your bubble, but IMO 3000 isnt gunna do it unless you plan on "parting" out a short block (ie building one from scratch basically), and even then you never know where the damage could be until you get it apart, should you pull the trigger on building the bottom end for a supercharger, and it end up being a trans problem, then your gunna be without a motor and a trans, and be in the hole without the cash to finish.
in general, its a good technique to plan everything out, then multiply your costs by two. i thought it'd only cost me my bottom end when i blew my motor, so i splurged a bit before i had the motor apart and got a nice mmr 750, then when i got the thing apart, found out i needed a set of cylinder heads on top. tacked on another 2k. figured if i was gunna do it i want cams ta boot. tack on another 600. thats not including gaskets & bearings.
honestly, to do it in the least amount of time, i say get a full blown longblock, fully assembled ready to go, just drop it in. just my opinion though.
that being said, a block CAN be built for a budget. however, corners may have to be cut, and time may be wasted.
and keep in mind, that even if you build a motor for more than the stock is capable of handling (~400-450 rwhp) you'll need all the additional supporting mods, ie fuel system, tuning, power adder (turbo, supercharger, nitrous). gets expensive real quick.
on top of the planning on twice the cost, plan on way more down time than you think. there's always those little problems that pop up. one that comes to mind that pissed me off was that the short block i ordered had a new style crank it in which requires a newer GT500 balancer pulley crank bolt. noone had this damn bolt within 500 miles, and i had to order, killing about 2 weeks time.
oh and, just wanna add that, why completely build a block, when you havent yet experience what a stock block can output with just a tad bit of juice or boost?, the problem could be as "small" as a timing chain issue, or even a throw out bearing on the trans (well known to be garbage and cause pining, chirping, or knocking)
in general, its a good technique to plan everything out, then multiply your costs by two. i thought it'd only cost me my bottom end when i blew my motor, so i splurged a bit before i had the motor apart and got a nice mmr 750, then when i got the thing apart, found out i needed a set of cylinder heads on top. tacked on another 2k. figured if i was gunna do it i want cams ta boot. tack on another 600. thats not including gaskets & bearings.
honestly, to do it in the least amount of time, i say get a full blown longblock, fully assembled ready to go, just drop it in. just my opinion though.
that being said, a block CAN be built for a budget. however, corners may have to be cut, and time may be wasted.
and keep in mind, that even if you build a motor for more than the stock is capable of handling (~400-450 rwhp) you'll need all the additional supporting mods, ie fuel system, tuning, power adder (turbo, supercharger, nitrous). gets expensive real quick.
on top of the planning on twice the cost, plan on way more down time than you think. there's always those little problems that pop up. one that comes to mind that pissed me off was that the short block i ordered had a new style crank it in which requires a newer GT500 balancer pulley crank bolt. noone had this damn bolt within 500 miles, and i had to order, killing about 2 weeks time.
oh and, just wanna add that, why completely build a block, when you havent yet experience what a stock block can output with just a tad bit of juice or boost?, the problem could be as "small" as a timing chain issue, or even a throw out bearing on the trans (well known to be garbage and cause pining, chirping, or knocking)
Is there an easy way to check the "timing chain issue" and the "throw out bearing"?
06-03-2012, 11:25 AM
#5
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NJ / MA
Posts: 1,337
the throw out bearing is the bearing that rides on your pressure plate, so if you notice that the noise goes away as you put a little pressure on the clutch pedal, or pull up on the clutch pedal, its that. ford designed it to always ride on the fingers of the pressure plate (bad design), so it wears out fast. one "fix" is either magnetic or spring assisted device to pull the clutch fork back to its full rearward position so that the bearing is not always resting on the pressure plate while the pedal is not depressed.
if its a timing chain issue, your gunna have to pop off the front timing cover. you might be able to see the issue if you pop off the valve covers and look down between the timing cover and head and spin the motor at a somewhat good speed (rig up the starter with the injectors and coils unplugged is an easy way)
if it is rod knock, your motor is probably on its last leg, and i'd start looking around for another car or another motor. btw, all those costs above, are all costs with me doing it myself. if i had sought the help of a shop, i could have trippled my costs. your in alabama at least, not the north east, so labor charges wouldnt be nearly as bad, but still, labor is a good chunk of change, and unless you know the mechanic, sometimes its a risk. for me it was a risk i wasnt willing to take considering the reputation of shops here in NJ.
and like SXGT said, if you can manage to salvage the block and/or heads, that'd be the best place to start for a budget rebuild. but until you pull that b*tch apart, i wouldnt rely on anything being in good enough shape to recycle. thats just my opinion though, as i did manage to crack the piston sleeve (im the only one that i know of).
if you do keep the block, dont forget the costs of getting it cleaned & machined.
if you do consider going that route and want to plan for the future, yes new pistons, rings, crank, rods at minimum for some good boost. anything beyond 550-600 rwhp, is probably going to require some decent head work/new heads, as well as cams, boost springs, new intake manifold, etc etc.
honestly, if it were me, i'd either go the route of trying to narrow down the issue as best as possible, and either grenade it (push it to the limit till it pops) or baby it, and go with a junkyard 4v that i could tear down and build up. but thats just me, and i enjoy a bit of self torture
if its a timing chain issue, your gunna have to pop off the front timing cover. you might be able to see the issue if you pop off the valve covers and look down between the timing cover and head and spin the motor at a somewhat good speed (rig up the starter with the injectors and coils unplugged is an easy way)
if it is rod knock, your motor is probably on its last leg, and i'd start looking around for another car or another motor. btw, all those costs above, are all costs with me doing it myself. if i had sought the help of a shop, i could have trippled my costs. your in alabama at least, not the north east, so labor charges wouldnt be nearly as bad, but still, labor is a good chunk of change, and unless you know the mechanic, sometimes its a risk. for me it was a risk i wasnt willing to take considering the reputation of shops here in NJ.
and like SXGT said, if you can manage to salvage the block and/or heads, that'd be the best place to start for a budget rebuild. but until you pull that b*tch apart, i wouldnt rely on anything being in good enough shape to recycle. thats just my opinion though, as i did manage to crack the piston sleeve (im the only one that i know of).
if you do keep the block, dont forget the costs of getting it cleaned & machined.
if you do consider going that route and want to plan for the future, yes new pistons, rings, crank, rods at minimum for some good boost. anything beyond 550-600 rwhp, is probably going to require some decent head work/new heads, as well as cams, boost springs, new intake manifold, etc etc.
honestly, if it were me, i'd either go the route of trying to narrow down the issue as best as possible, and either grenade it (push it to the limit till it pops) or baby it, and go with a junkyard 4v that i could tear down and build up. but thats just me, and i enjoy a bit of self torture
06-03-2012, 11:34 AM
#6
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 89
If you plan on supercharging it your gonna want to replace the entire rotating assembly with all forged parts or your just asking for trouble down the road. While your at it you might as well just stroke it also, It's not going to cost a whole lot more then going with a stock stroke assembly. Do yourself a favor and do it right the first time or you'll just be fixing it again at a later date. You would be looking at closer to $4000 though, but in the end it will be worth it.
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