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4.6 Crown Vic to Mustang question

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Old 04-22-2013, 04:57 PM   #1
acaeton4
 
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Default 4.6 Crown Vic to Mustang question

Hey all, I'm new here but picked this forum because it seemed to have quite a few knowledgeable and helpful members. I'm an auto tech by trade, so competent with the work ahead of me on this car, but after lots of searching I can't seem to track down a few little bits of info I need. I'm in need of a motor for my 97 GT Conv. I can save several hundred and get a lower mileage motor by purchasing one from a CV of the same vintage (probably also not been driven as hard). I know that with a few parts switched over the Crown Vic engine can drop right in, that much I can figure out. What I'm wondering is this: The power specs for the CV are considerably lower than the Mustang. Is this an internal (pistons, cams...) build issue, or just the way it's tuned. If I plug it into my Mustang ECM will it run just like my original motor? I'm not looking for suggestions or opinions on how to build loads of power, or what else might work, just want an answer from somebody who knows as I've read that they have different cam profiles, and ALSO that they are identical internally, it's just programming. So if you can help me, I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks!
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Old 04-22-2013, 05:07 PM   #2
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And like an idiot noob I somehow managed to post this in the wrong spot. If you happen to be a moderator looking at this...please help me out and move this to the "swap" section.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:36 PM   #3
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if this is a npi 4.6 engine, its a complete long block drop in. the motors are exactly the same internally. if its the pi engine, you will only need the pi intake manifold.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:41 PM   #4
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Thanks for the info. I'm not looking to build a street racer or anything, but I really didn't want to give up any more of what little power these things have.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:52 PM   #5
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If I were you, I'd locate a PI Crown Vic motor (2001+?), swap a Mustang PI intake onto it, and do the PI conversion. It should run ok on the stock tune and it'll feel a lot faster than your stock npi with a good tune done.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:10 PM   #6
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OK, so pricing 01+ Crown Vic engines and they are actually in my price range (about half the price of the 01 Mustang Engines). Hadn't even really looked at those, so thanks for the info. What would I be looking at besides the intake as far as something I couldn't switch over directly from my 97? Also, without a tune, what kind of power gains are we talking about? Anything over the stock 215 is great, just curious.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:25 PM   #7
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Also, I've got a 5 spd. Would that bolt up to my flywheel properly?
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by acaeton4 View Post
OK, so pricing 01+ Crown Vic engines and they are actually in my price range (about half the price of the 01 Mustang Engines). Hadn't even really looked at those, so thanks for the info. What would I be looking at besides the intake as far as something I couldn't switch over directly from my 97? Also, without a tune, what kind of power gains are we talking about? Anything over the stock 215 is great, just curious.
Your 97 npi intake will work but it will not flow well on the pi heads. The factory pi intake manifold is cheap, just make sure you get one with the aluminum coolant crossover. Horsepower range for a pi engine is around 260 flywheel. With your stock tune, it should be close to this.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:19 PM   #9
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Also, I've got a 5 spd. Would that bolt up to my flywheel properly?
Some of the pi engines were either 6 or 8 bolt cranks. You might luck up and get the same as your car but if not, you can buy a stock replacement for the pi engine.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:49 PM   #10
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Go for the newer PI head motor for sure, and its pretty much a direct swap.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:00 PM   #11
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Great info guys! Thanks for all the help. Found a civilian 02 Crown Vic with 75000 miles for $350 (The ladies ex had taken a baseball bat to it. People are insane!) Can't beat that deal (in this area at least). Hopefully going to pick that up this weekend and get this thing back on the road!
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:17 AM   #12
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Great info guys! Thanks for all the help. Found a civilian 02 Crown Vic with 75000 miles for $350 (The ladies ex had taken a baseball bat to it. People are insane!) Can't beat that deal (in this area at least). Hopefully going to pick that up this weekend and get this thing back on the road!
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Old 04-24-2013, 07:01 AM   #13
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Nice find, you'll like that pi swap!
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Old 04-24-2013, 04:58 PM   #14
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If I were you, I'd locate a PI Crown Vic motor (2001+?), swap a Mustang PI intake onto it, and do the PI conversion. It should run ok on the stock tune and it'll feel a lot faster than your stock npi with a good tune done.
Is there a difference between the Crown Vic PI intake and the Mustang PI intake? Just curious. About the cheapest I can find a Mustang PI intake with the aluminum crossover is $100 here. Not a bad deal, but if it's unnecessary i would rather not spend the money. Looking at the pic of the motor I'm buying it looks like they left the intake on it.

On a side note, from the info I'm looking at my 97 GT (VIN X) should have a Windsor, but if I'm counting my cam cover bolts right (11) it indicates a Romeo. Probably a previous swap....which I'm hoping should mean a 6 bolt crank and easier swap with fewer parts to buy (unless I'm getting bad info, which is not entirely impossible). I guess I'll find out this weekend when I rip her apart! Thanks again for all the help everybody! Excited to get into this project!
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Old 05-04-2013, 12:02 AM   #15
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I have a 96gt, I did PI head swap on mine, my heads and intake were off an 01 police interceptor which got rear ended pretty good, but the engine had lower miles on it. As far as your engine in the car now it should be a Romeo not a Windsor. They did not put Windsor engines in tell a few years later. Your crown vic motor should be a Romeo also which makes life much easier because everything basically bolts up. You may need to get a different coolant crossover tube and a coolant nipple to fit deeper pi intake. Also I believe I needed a alternator bracket and an oil dip stick tube. Also make sure you use all new upper gaskets and also new head bolts.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:13 PM   #16
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Thanks again everybody. Swap is done. Not a bad job and I love the results! This engine was super clean inside and out. Couldn't be happier with it. Here are my findings in hopes they might help others searching this info out.
As mentioned by many before me the intakes on the CVs are set up to suck in on the left side. I found though that after removing everything bolted to it, my mustang TB and everything else fit on perfect, so I just swapped that stuff over. Pretty sure the plastic intake manifold is the exact same part from stang to Vic. Little bit different coolant tube going back to the heater core left me scratching my head for a bit. Luckily for me I work in a shop and we keep lots of scrap hose around for when we need something prebent and I was able to make something work there. I'm sure there are other approaches to this.
I also swapped my mustang dipstick tube over.
Used my mustang oil pan.
Of course I swapped my coils and wires instead of the coil-on plug of the newer vic motor. Much easier than swapping computers.
One thing I never saw mentioned was the timing cover. The newer style doesn't fit the mounting brackets for the coil packs, Not a biggie but make sure you have a new timing cover gasket ready to swap that over as well.
As mentioned in the previous post the alternator bracket doesn't work but the one off your mustang can be drilled and modified to do the job.
Exhaust manifolds get swapped from your pony to the new engine.
And of course, the drilling and tapping of the crossover tube for the second sensor. Easy job there. 9/16" drill bit. 3/8" NPT tap and you're in. Make sure to take the green sensor from your mustang intake and put it in the existing hole in the newer intake. The gray sensor already in the new intake will plug in, but you won't get a proper reading on your dash gauge. The gray sensor from your mustang will go in the new hole.
New gaskets on everything that get's disturbed of course, and I did valve cover gaskets as well just because they looked like they would be a pain to change later if they started leaking.
I think I'm getting most of it. If I remember more I'll throw it up here later.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:22 PM   #17
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I'm putting a 2009 2v PI CV motor in my 2001 GT soon (it's en route from a salvage yard, 32k miles on it). I'll let you guys know how that goes, but with everything swapped off the Mustang engine (including intake manifold and valve covers), I imagine it will be pretty straightforward.

Edit: I realize this isn't an upgrade, but my motor got hydrolocked... :/ If anything, maybe I'll gain some slight amount of power from better compression (lower miles).
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:22 PM
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