Jazzer The Cat

Back in November of '10 I had decided that I wanted more power, but was not willing to go the way of forced induction. I wanted to stay N/A, as well as go alum. block to save some weight. I don't fool around when I have stuff done, so went heavy duty all the way, just in the off chance I would reconsider going with a power adder someday. This is a balanced forged motor built with the idea that I "may" put 2 or 3 lb's of boost one day and would handle it. It put 321 N/A HP to the wheels and ran strong.

The motor was 100% custom built for my car and installed by Griggs Racing in Sonoma, Ca. I could dig up all the specs, but is not relevant to why the motor failed. This motor failed due to an issue with the harmonic balancer retaining bolt. This is not disputed by Livernois, but rather what caused its failure. Whether this bolt was improperly torqued, stretched, stripped or otherwise failed, the lack of its tension allowed the cam gears to "lose" proper time with crankshaft and ultimately allowed the pistons to strike the valves and cease to run. This motor had about 2K miles and had been to a day of auto-cross 3 weeks prior to its failure. At the time of failure, I was traveling down the highway in 5th gear at 2500 rpm and she just stopped running. ANYONE who knows of this part, realizes that the driver of a car CANNOT effect the relationship of the parts held by this bolt by driving the car. According to Tom Millen (General Manager Livernois Motorsports), there are "lots of things" that a driver can do to cause a failure of this type. During a phone conversation we had, I asked him the following question...

Eric question to Tom Millen:
"What as a diver, can I do to cause the relationship between the parts held with this bolt to change"

Tom Millens answer.....? "well, I don't know what accessories you were running.." I abruptly interupted him at that point to ask how an A/C compressor or 200 amp alternator could spin the cam gears relationship to the crankshaft?" I stated the obvious and reminded him that failed parts are not even visible from without removing the timing chain cover and cannot be effected by a load on the serpentine belt. So he goes on to say....

Tom Millen goes on to say:
"There are several other ways for this part to fail and I don't know who tuned this motor, but it was black with carbon inside" This is not only a bull**** change of subject, but is a complete lie. This motor was tuned by John Griggs of Griggs Racing and varified as clean while trying to figure out why the motor stopped running. They have been building some of the fastest open-track Mustangs for 30+ years. Their reputation is impeccable and realized quickly that I was not going to get anywhere with him, so a legal case is the only option I have. He said since I had "raced" the motor, he could not honor a warranty, but would repair it for $1900. I agreed to pay him and have been gathering all the info (dates/times of conversations and what not) needed to persue the matter legally. Appears he does not even look at his own website that states clearly and openly... "Performance driven, race proven".

Just wanted to let you all know that although Livernois builds a great motor, standing behind them and "owning" its mistakes is not something they do :no

Eric

dwtjr3

Wow thats a shame jazzer sorry to hear about that.

But sounds to me like someone had the thought of " im not going to help this guy out" before you even called him and it seems as if regardless of what you said he wasnt going to help.

So the harmonic balancer bolt snapped and they wanted to blame it on A/C and a bad tune? That makes no sense in even the dumbest point of view

uberstang1

Jazzer which bolt failed exactly when us ay the harmonic balance bolt? Your referring to the crank pulley bolt?

BraMas

What bolt did you have holding the HB on? OEM or ARP

Jazzer The Cat

The harmonic balancer retainer bolt failed in some way. They said it was tight to proper specs, yet it obviously allowed the gears to move and widen the keyway to 1/2". Griggs has looked at the parts they sent back (required to get my $1900 payment to repair motor) and the bolt is not there, so I have no idea what bolt they used. Since Livernois refuses to accept even the possibilty that the bolt was not torqued properly or some of the parts were defective (improper machining or what not) then my day of AX is obviously to blame for the failure.

Somebody please tell me how a driver can POSSIBLY cause this bolt to fail regardless of RPM or how hard a car is driven?

.... anybody.... anybody.... Bueller, Bueller?

JC316

It can't be affected by the driver, Livernois is screwing you and I wouldn't pay them a damned dime. If they screwed up the first time, why should you trust that they will get it right the second time?

There is a right way to do business and they aren't doing it.

97stanger

That's surprising to hear. Livernois is usually a company us Mustang guys like to support for reasons unlike this. Sorry to hear man. It seems a legal approach may be your only option

cliffyk

There are only three things I can conjure up that would cause the crank nose bolt to fail or loosen:

A defective bolt;

The bolt was under-torqued and worked loose;

The bolt was over-torqued damaging the bolt or the threads in the crank nose--in effect "under-torqued";

99GTvert

Damn Jazzer. That sucks.

Hamidar05

Sorry to hear about that.. Coyote or Roadrunner swap!