ctgreddy

I'm very confused here, so the bolt was still tight in the crank but yet the crank gear became lose? the crank gear is always somewhat lose isn't it? then the keyway is what holds it i thought.

BraMas

When you put the HB on it presses on the crank trigger wheel so it is not loose once you torque the HB bolt.
If your old OEM TTY HB bolt was reused I could see this happening. If a new OEM bolt was used and it was torqued in the correct sequence I don't see how it could have happened

ctgreddy

^ that's what I thought might happen. but if the bolt was still tight then how the hell did it move. you're positive this is what caused the issue and the crank gear wasn't just damaged when the pistons hit the valves?

dwtjr3

I was thinking this too when I originally read it, but the only thing I could think of is like bramas said

Either stock bolt was reused, or a over/under torqued bolt

ctgreddy

I re-used my stock bolt on my 2000 a couple times, and never had an issue. But that said Livernois wouldn't have reused a stock bolt on a new longblock, especially since they have a box in the back full with new oem bolts.

BraMas

So who installed the HB Livernois or Griggs? Yes I know many people have reused the OEM bolt with no problems but this is the reason Ford has stated to NOT reuse the OEM bolt because of issues like this can and do happen if a new bolt was used all my points are invalid and it becomes a torque issue.

PurpleIcedGT

For all of the money you spent on that motor (I'm assuming) they should be bending over backwards and putting a brand new motor into your car. That is horseshlt.

Jazzer The Cat

There is no question that the cam gears moved and was proven by Griggs Racing prior to ever sending the motor back to Livernois. Griggs did not remove the timing gear cover, but was able to get about 8° of rotation (if I recall correctly) back and forth on crank without the cams turning at all. Just enough for the valves to bearly "kiss" the pistons, but not bend. They looked in through the spark plug hole with a small camera to see slight marks on the pistons from this contact. I know for a fact that MY old bolt was not used, as I sold my motor and is being used by someone from another forum.

Originally, Tom Millen gave me the option of waiting another 4 weeks (this was beyond the already 1+ months they had my motor back) to have all of the parts tested for hardness at MY expense. The second option was to just pay them for a BRAND NEW MOTOR, also at MY expense. This was because Tom Millen could not find it within himself to pay for this issue. He was looking for anybody to blame for the failure so Livernois would not have to warranty repairs. I told him absolutely not, as the failure was on the part of Livernois, regardless of what vendor sold/made the parts THEY assembled and sold to me as a complete motor. On one of my first converstaions with Livernois employee (don't want to give his name, as he was straight up and directly contradicts everything that Tom Millen told me) I was told that... (slight paraphrase here)


I was told a slight variation of the EXACT SAME STATEMENT approx. 1 month later and have dates/times of both phone conversations. Tom Millen did everything of which he could think to avoid a warranty repair of my motor. By the way, the above "options" were given to me 1 month PRIOR to Tom Millen speaking to Bruce Griggs and asking if I had ever raced this motor. Tom Millen was still looking for that excuse to avoid warranty repairs, so he posed this question at the possibilty it would be true. Imagine that... someone spends $10,000 to have a motor built and does NOT put it in a Prius to mosey around town.

Tom Millen NEVER spoke directly to me until I screamed for the 3rd time and told the "un-named" Livernois employee I was about to take legal action and would not negotiate any further. I spoke to "un-named" employee early in the morning after month #3 having posession of my motor to tell Livernois of my position. Tom Millen finally called me back that afternoon and said he "I tried to call you and was unable to get through" about 1 month prior. On top of everything else, this is a complete fabrication, as Livernois had email addresses and at least 3 phone numbers to either myself or Griggs Racing. During this converstation, I aggreed to pay $1900 to end this absolute nightmare of a situation and get things rolling again after over 6 months of no car. There are reasons why I did not push this issue much harder and sooner, but those are personal and will not share them. What I can say, is this event caused me an huge amount of stress and added great difficulty and additional financial burden.

For those reading this... There is NO embellishment here and have dates and times of the above events. This entire issue stems from Tom Millen's lack of owning the problem and warranty an obvious failure on Livernois Motorsports part. This was simply and issue of human error on somebody's part at Livernois or one of its vendors parts. Once I agreed to pay $1900 for repairs, I had the motor back within a few weeks. I agreed to pay Livernois, only because I was beyond my wits end and had no more energy to fight this issue. As much as it burned me to pay for repairs, at this particular time, I did not want to throw the issue into the hands of lawyers. Make no mistake, I was willing to do so at the beginning of my converstation with Tom Millen, but once he proposed $1900 for repairs, I opted to do so to end this mess.

Eric

dwtjr3

Well atleast you have a motor back,

It seems like every performance shop I have heard of that builds S/B's has atleast 1 person that had a motor improperly assembled then getting screwed over by the owner, wether its MMR or livernois I have heard a story from both.

fastbackford351

Oof. What a kick in the sack.