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bigger fuel injectors?

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Old 05-08-2013, 08:29 AM   #1
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Default bigger fuel injectors?

I am installing trick flow heads and cms stage 3 cams. I already have cold air intake, 75mm throttle body, plenum, and full exhaust with long tubes. Should I upgrade to bigger fuel injectors? Also what about the MAF sensor? I wasn't sure what the stock injectors could handle. If so does anyone know what size I should use or any good brands to get? Any help is appreciated. It's for a 2004 GT
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:01 AM   #2
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Your '04 has the pink (lavender) 21 lb/h injectors, good for 320 fwHP (flywheel HP); 270 at the wheels. Your build, with a decent tune (you did not mention a tune/tuner), will certainly meet and likely beat that limit. 24 lb/h injectors would be "dead on" for your setup, or even 30 lb/h units.

You will of course need a retune when the injectors are upgraded.

The stock MAF can meter up to 2600 lb/h air flow before "pegging", that is enough air for 385 fwHP, 325 at the wheels and should be fine for what your are doing.
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Last edited by cliffyk; 05-08-2013 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:38 AM   #3
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I've been wondering the same thing, good info cliffyk!
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:36 PM   #4
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cool thanks for the info and yes i will be having it tuned
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:43 PM   #5
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im going to go with the 30 lb injectors. another question about the stock fuel pump. will it be able to handle the new mods? how much hp will a stock fuel pump safely handle? i have been looking around and see most people using the svt focus pump. is this something i should consider doing? and where could i get one? a ford dealership?
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Old 05-12-2013, 07:59 PM   #6
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At 60 psi output (the PCM will command up to 53 psi when the fuel is hot) the stock GT pump can deliver 115 liters/hour, or 4.0 ft³/hour, or 180 lb/h of gasoline. 180 lb/h will support 360 fwHP (flywheel HP), or 310 at the rear wheels.

A simple upgrade if you need more is the Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump (BAP)--with the BAP the stock pump can deliver up to 200 liters/h, some 310 lb/h; or enough to support 600+ rwHP. Much more then the stock rods can handle...
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:27 PM   #7
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yea i have heard of the boost-a-pump and was looking at that. so you would recommend that over replacing the stock pump with the svt focus pump? any specific reasons as to go one way or another? just curious
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:59 PM   #8
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The SVT Focus pump maxes out at 185 lph (290 lb/h)--the stock GT pump with the BAP at 200 lph (310 lb/h)--making it pretty much "six of one and 1/2 dozen of the other".

The BAP is a proven solution that takes advantage of underutilized capacity of the stock pump; the SVT Focus pump requires that you drop the fuel tank and swap pumps.

Running with the mods you describe (I doubt you will hit 300 at the wheels, unless you spend a LOT of money the 2V just doesn't do that well running n/a) the stock pump will be working hard, but should handle the load...
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Delta Force tuned, Steeda UDPs, Ralco flywheel,
RAM HDX clutch, 3.73s, 262 rwHP/305 lb-ft.

New ride (7/1/2013) 1998 Mercedes SL500-5.0L 32V VVT 326/347 HP/tq


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Old 05-20-2013, 03:25 PM   #9
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where can the svt focus pump be found for sale? my father-in-law is running a Kenny Bell setup on a stock pump and needs to upgrade asap.
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Old 05-21-2013, 09:53 PM   #10
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I went to a local ford dealer and could order one but it was like $300. I'm going to continue to look online in hopes of finding something cheaper but the ford dealer is always a last resort. If anyone does know a cheaper place to get one let me know.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:25 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffyk View Post
Your '04 has the pink (lavender) 21 lb/h injectors, good for 320 fwHP (flywheel HP); 270 at the wheels. Your build, with a decent tune (you did not mention a tune/tuner), will certainly meet and likely beat that limit. 24 lb/h injectors would be "dead on" for your setup, or even 30 lb/h units.

You will of course need a retune when the injectors are upgraded.

The stock MAF can meter up to 2600 lb/h air flow before "pegging", that is enough air for 385 fwHP, 325 at the wheels and should be fine for what your are doing.
I have the stock injectors in my 04 and I put down 298 hp to the wheels and it was not close to maxing them out.
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Old 05-24-2013, 09:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04GTRed View Post
I have the stock injectors in my 04 and I put down 298 hp to the wheels and it was not close to maxing them out.
At what fuel pressure?
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Delta Force tuned, Steeda UDPs, Ralco flywheel,
RAM HDX clutch, 3.73s, 262 rwHP/305 lb-ft.

New ride (7/1/2013) 1998 Mercedes SL500-5.0L 32V VVT 326/347 HP/tq


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Old 05-24-2013, 11:16 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by 04GTRed View Post
I have the stock injectors in my 04 and I put down 298 hp to the wheels and it was not close to maxing them out.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, please define "not close to maxing them out" what duty cycle where they running at?
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Old 05-24-2013, 11:18 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffyk View Post
At what fuel pressure?
Stock. For the nitrous tune we added fuel to the initial hit of nitrous but that was it. The only fuel system mod I have is a focus pump.
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298/323 on motor
403/490 on a 48 Jet
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
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LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL, please define "not close to maxing them out" what duty cycle where they running at?
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLOL, you've got me. I was hoping to get you the exact percentage, but the tuner just emailed saying he did not keep the log. I really do wish I had a better answer, believe me, I like numbers that back up statements.

However, fuel injector duty cycle percentage was not even brought up 1 time during my appointment. He only asked what injectors I had and that was it, past that, the only remark made was that the fuel system was fine. The fuel pump was at 75% for the n/a tune and 82% for the 48 jet nitrous tune, I do remember that.
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298/323 on motor
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:14 PM   #16
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I find it hard to beleive stock injectors supporting 300 wheel horsepower "not even closed to max out" Also what mods are done to the motor that it make 298rwhp NA
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I find it hard to beleive stock injectors supporting 300 wheel horsepower "not even closed to max out" Also what mods are done to the motor that it make 298rwhp NA
I will answer this by starting another thread, after I get back from a little league game. As for those that have asked about focus pumps, you can usually find them listed for sale on corral.net. That is where I picked mine up for $70 shipped.
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298/323 on motor
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Old 05-24-2013, 06:52 PM   #18
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There is no way the stock '04 21 lb/h injectors--on their own at 40 psi--will put 298 HP to the wheels (approximately 350 at the crank)--no way...
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Delta Force tuned, Steeda UDPs, Ralco flywheel,
RAM HDX clutch, 3.73s, 262 rwHP/305 lb-ft.

New ride (7/1/2013) 1998 Mercedes SL500-5.0L 32V VVT 326/347 HP/tq


Engineering is, at its base, making what you want from what you have.
At its extreme it is making what you want from what you can get.
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Old 05-24-2013, 08:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
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There is no way the stock '04 21 lb/h injectors--on their own at 40 psi--will put 298 HP to the wheels (approximately 350 at the crank)--no way...
Ok, some of you made me curious!

I was hoping Kurgan had the logs from my pulls, but they don't keep them. So, I thought I would just plug up my actron that has 121 pids to choose from and scrolled right down to fuel pressure. Time for a test drive! I mounted it up so it was just like looking at a gauge and made 3 pulls in fourth from 3500 to 6000. And guess what..... 39.8 to 40.7 psi!

I knew Kurgan didn't mention fuel pressure for a reason, it's because he left it alone!
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:03 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04GTRed View Post
Ok, some of you made me curious!

I was hoping Kurgan had the logs from my pulls, but they don't keep them. So, I thought I would just plug up my actron that has 121 pids to choose from and scrolled right down to fuel pressure. Time for a test drive! I mounted it up so it was just like looking at a gauge and made 3 pulls in fourth from 3500 to 6000. And guess what..... 39.8 to 40.7 psi!

I knew Kurgan didn't mention fuel pressure for a reason, it's because he left it alone!
Of course he left it alone, you do realize that the stock vacum controlled fuel pressure regulator is non adjustable right?
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Old 05-28-2013, 07:03 AM
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