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2002 engine rebuild

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Old 06-30-2014, 01:38 PM   #41
VTX1800N1
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Default Could this be the cause of the engine failure?

This looks like either improper casting- as in the casting for the cylinder didn't extend far enough down into the block, or part of the block cracked and fell off. I wouldn't worry so much about it, but when I pass my finger over it, I can feel how rough it is on the cylinder wall. The piston extends below this at BDC, so it definitely came into contact with the defect. This was on cylinder 6, which was the piston that was scuffed the worst. I think this might have been there for quite a long time and may have been the source of metal that went through the engine. Look at the 6 - 7 o'clock position at the bottom of the cylinder bore:

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Old 06-30-2014, 01:46 PM   #42
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#2 Main bearing, looks like a lateral crack:

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#6 cylinder from the top:

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#8 cylinder from the top:

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#5 Main/Thrust bearing:

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Timing cover shows no signs of timing chain contact:

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The block is on the way to the machine shop:

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Old 06-30-2014, 07:43 PM   #43
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:24 PM   #44
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Default Finally found the source of all the metal that destroyed the bearings

OUCH!!! Not good. Passenger side head. This is what happens when the cam retainer bridge gets loose. The cam eats the bridge and the head.

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Lots of metal from the head and bridge.
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Cam boss/bridge. Camshaft ate it after the retainer bolts came loose and the bridge cracked.
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Not pretty. Not pretty at all.
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Notice the oil feed hole on the journal at the far left is completely closed off by metal.
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More oil feeds wiped out.
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Far left, journal #1, is what they should look like.
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Passenger cam showing bad wear at the cam journals and evidence of contact with the cam bridge.
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Old 06-30-2014, 09:29 PM   #45
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So much for those who told me that it was unlikely anything mechanical was wrong with this engine.....
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:02 PM   #46
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Well look at it this way...You get a whole bunch of new parts and can build it your way. Nothing like good carnage posts.

I would deburr all areas in that block it looks a mess especially under #6. I agree that looks like a casting issue on the block. I don't think it went thru the engine as it would have shown up with it's destruction much earlier than now.

Good luck with the build.
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Old 07-01-2014, 12:58 PM   #47
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Machine shop is going to chamfer the bottom of 6 to eliminate that issue. He is buying brand new heads, so these will get recycled at the junk yard. Crank is going to get polished. Not sure yet if we'll need under size main/rod bearings.

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Old 07-02-2014, 02:59 PM   #48
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Wow great pictures, so the cam retainer or whats left of it clogged the oil passages causing the bearing failure. Good luck with the rebuild.
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Old 07-02-2014, 06:57 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJL View Post
Wow great pictures, so the cam retainer or whats left of it clogged the oil passages causing the bearing failure. Good luck with the rebuild.
Not quite. The bolts for the camshafts were loose. I'm not sure why; if they loosened over time or if someone had been into the engine and didn't torque them properly. The result was that the retainer bridges got loose and the cam started to eat them and the journals in the head. This galling closed off the oil feed holes at the journals, causing even more galling. It eventually got so bad that aluminum bits from the head went through the entire engine, destroying all the bearings in the short block and causing extreme scuffing on cylinder 6 and minor scuffing on 3 and 8. I checked the driver side head and found similar, though not as bad, galling. All but the rear most oil feed hole in the journals was closed off by galling in the driver side head. I'm really surprised the engine didn't seize.

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Old 07-03-2014, 08:42 PM   #50
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Looks like LMR has a SPEC lightweight aluminum flywheel and Stage I clutch on sale. More parts soon to be on the way....

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Old 07-11-2014, 07:34 AM   #51
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I think we are going to remove the K member for two reasons. We are going to POR 15 the entire engine bay. There is some rust in there and the POR 15 will permanently eliminate it and make everything a nice satin chassis black. Taking it out means we can paint it separate and get between it and the chassis much easier. It will also make hooking up the starter and exhaust much easier as we reinstall the engine. The only tight quarters then will be hooking the steering shaft to the rack, but I think that will be easier than the exhaust and starter.

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Old 07-11-2014, 01:21 PM   #52
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My brother has a Steeda Tri-ax shifter somewhere in his garage from his Ford days, before he went to the dark side. He's going to give it to my son since it fits the Tremec 3650 in this Mustang.

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Old 07-11-2014, 09:20 PM   #53
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Regardless of the symptoms there is no reason to immediately assume engine destruction. Faulty ignition components are some of the most common issues and will cause these motors to run like *** and sound horrible. The failure that you have run across in your motor is one in a million and very bizarre.

Faulty factory cam hardware installation and/or faulty service done on the heads down the road caused this chain reaction. Its too bad but at least once you are done the thing is fresh and will last a very very long time if properly serviced.

If you immediately tore down every engine with bad noises without changing or inspecting anything I have a feeling youd waste quite a bit of money over a life time. But maybe thats the crazy in me.
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Old 07-12-2014, 01:49 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hangwire View Post
Regardless of the symptoms there is no reason to immediately assume engine destruction. Faulty ignition components are some of the most common issues and will cause these motors to run like *** and sound horrible. The failure that you have run across in your motor is one in a million and very bizarre.

Faulty factory cam hardware installation and/or faulty service done on the heads down the road caused this chain reaction. Its too bad but at least once you are done the thing is fresh and will last a very very long time if properly serviced.

If you immediately tore down every engine with bad noises without changing or inspecting anything I have a feeling youd waste quite a bit of money over a life time. But maybe thats the crazy in me.
My point was, I know what a mechanical problem sounds like, especially when using a stethoscope to pinpoint it combined with codes showing misfire in the same location. Nor did I tear down the engine without doing an inspection. I pulled codes, listened with a stethoscope, swapped plugs and coils, and finally did an oil pressure and compression test before tearing it apart. That's a rather complete diagnostic. After listening to the engine run, there was no doubt in my mind that it was a mechanical problem on the top with #3 and #4, and I was exactly correct.

I can't imagine this was a factory defect and the engine "survived" 143K miles. It would have self-destructed long before this. Someone was in this engine and didn't bother to torque the cam bolts properly. We are ordering new heads, fully assembled. I am for sure going to check the torque on the cam bolts. I will probably remove the cams and make sure there is plenty of assembly lube and then reinstall and torque them to factory specs. I actually think the rockers fell out as we were removing the valve cover. We heard some strange noises from under the cover as my son was removing the bolts around #3 and #4 on the cover.

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Old 07-12-2014, 12:29 PM   #55
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Quote:
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I actually think the rockers fell out as we were removing the valve cover. We heard some strange noises from under the cover as my son was removing the bolts around #3 and #4 on the cover.
That had to been an "oh ****" moment.
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Old 07-12-2014, 12:38 PM   #56
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That had to been an "oh ****" moment.
A little confusing, actually. I could hear them fall one by one in rapid succession, and we both looked at each other, wondering what that sound was. It wasn't till the valve cover was off, of course, that I had any idea that the engine had ejected them.

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Old 07-12-2014, 05:07 PM   #57
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We pulled the front bumper to get a better look at the radiator frame damage. I found a replacement piece at Rock Auto for ~$80. Just have to get a body shop to cut the old one out and install a new one.

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Old 07-13-2014, 03:50 PM   #58
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Well, Rock Auto wanted over $70 to ship the radiator support. LMR sells the same part for $109 with free shipping. I also ordered Hawk ceramic front and rear brake pads so that I could get the order over $250 to qualify for $10 off with the Get10 coupon code.

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Old 07-14-2014, 06:51 PM   #59
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Looks like I'm not the only one to find this problem on the 4.6L!!!

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Old 07-15-2014, 12:20 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronaldo1312 View Post
There's not much room on the back side between the engine and firewall.
For what?

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Old 07-15-2014, 12:20 AM
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