2002 engine rebuild
10-21-2014, 02:19 PM
#101
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: IL
Posts: 335
Dropped off the block at the machine shop. The owner is not sure what happened. He says he can sleeve that cylinder to fix it and there will be no durability issues.
Sent from my XT1080 using IB AutoGroup
Sent from my XT1080 using IB AutoGroup
10-24-2014, 01:36 PM
#102
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: IL
Posts: 335
Thinking about some options for this build. He is making good money and progress buying parts. The full gasket set, APR head studs, APR mains studs, APR crank bolt, and ATI balancer are already on the way. He's about to order another $600 in parts from LMR, which are a lot of the little things (EGR valve, IAC valve, PCV valve, water pump, motor mounts, transmission mount, etc).
However, he's itching to get the car on the road, and I don't blame him. So, thinking about the possibilities, this is what I've come up with:
Buy a set of TFS heads now, but put in some stock PI cams. The "assembled" heads do not come with cams, lash adjusters, or cam followers. I can get a set of new take-off PI cams for $70. Along with stock Ford lash adjusters and cam followers, that is a $360 cost. The heads will be ~$2300.
I called Trick Flow and spoke to one of their techs. He was fairly sure (though not completely sure) that we would be able to run the stock tune, with stock 21lb injectors and MAF sensor so long as we use the stock PI cams. That avoids a LOT of costs for now. 30lb injectors were going to cost him $300. A larger MAF was $400-$500. I live near Anderson Ford Motorsport and called them for a price on a dyno tune. Cost for a tuner and dyno session was estimated at $800 - $1000K.
He can drive it like this for the winter, and then next spring, when he has the money, he can order new injectors, MAF, and cams. We can get that installed in a day and then he can get it tuned.
Of course, we have already planned on BBK ceramic long tubes and the matching catted H-pipe.
The question is now, where do I buy the heads from. Fox Lake, Modular Head Shop, Modular Motorsport Racing....
However, he's itching to get the car on the road, and I don't blame him. So, thinking about the possibilities, this is what I've come up with:
Buy a set of TFS heads now, but put in some stock PI cams. The "assembled" heads do not come with cams, lash adjusters, or cam followers. I can get a set of new take-off PI cams for $70. Along with stock Ford lash adjusters and cam followers, that is a $360 cost. The heads will be ~$2300.
I called Trick Flow and spoke to one of their techs. He was fairly sure (though not completely sure) that we would be able to run the stock tune, with stock 21lb injectors and MAF sensor so long as we use the stock PI cams. That avoids a LOT of costs for now. 30lb injectors were going to cost him $300. A larger MAF was $400-$500. I live near Anderson Ford Motorsport and called them for a price on a dyno tune. Cost for a tuner and dyno session was estimated at $800 - $1000K.
He can drive it like this for the winter, and then next spring, when he has the money, he can order new injectors, MAF, and cams. We can get that installed in a day and then he can get it tuned.
Of course, we have already planned on BBK ceramic long tubes and the matching catted H-pipe.
The question is now, where do I buy the heads from. Fox Lake, Modular Head Shop, Modular Motorsport Racing....
Last edited by VTX1800N1; 10-24-2014 at 02:22 PM.
10-28-2014, 03:51 PM
#103
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: IL
Posts: 335
Question for those following this thread-
When it comes to the cam chain tensioners, I have two options. The kit that included all Ford parts for the timing included the new style plastic composite chain tensioners. The tensioners that came off this engine were the older style cast iron. Should I use the new plastic tensioners or try to disassemble, clean, and re-use the cast iron tensioners? The cast iron tensioners do have a ratcheting system, the plastic ones do not.
EDIT: Also, the plastic tensioners have silicone gaskets, the iron tensioners have none.
When it comes to the cam chain tensioners, I have two options. The kit that included all Ford parts for the timing included the new style plastic composite chain tensioners. The tensioners that came off this engine were the older style cast iron. Should I use the new plastic tensioners or try to disassemble, clean, and re-use the cast iron tensioners? The cast iron tensioners do have a ratcheting system, the plastic ones do not.
EDIT: Also, the plastic tensioners have silicone gaskets, the iron tensioners have none.
Last edited by VTX1800N1; 10-28-2014 at 03:59 PM.
10-28-2014, 04:59 PM
#104
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 658
Good build thread. I cant wait to see the outcome when its put back together. Great project.
Cant answer your question about the tensioner. So I might sound stupid saying this, but I depending on the condition and wear of the cast iron tensioner it may better to stick with those. I would think the cast iron tensioners would wear better than the composite ones and withstand engine heat better over time. That is just my opinion and I could be wrong.
Cant answer your question about the tensioner. So I might sound stupid saying this, but I depending on the condition and wear of the cast iron tensioner it may better to stick with those. I would think the cast iron tensioners would wear better than the composite ones and withstand engine heat better over time. That is just my opinion and I could be wrong.
10-29-2014, 12:46 AM
#105
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: IL
Posts: 335
Looks like all the bolts and gasket set will be here Friday. This order from ModMax definitely went a lot smoother. We just have to get the block back from sleeving the damaged cylinder to begin engine assembly.
Sent from my XT1080 using IB AutoGroup
Sent from my XT1080 using IB AutoGroup
10-31-2014, 12:14 PM
#107
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: IL
Posts: 335
Just some technical info for those following this build. The 4340 forged rods weigh in at 575g, with a big end weight of 401g and a pin end of 174g. This is with the ARP 2000 fasteners. According to the following source, the stock Ford powdered metal cracked cap rods weigh 615g: http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2006...the-ford-4-6l/
The Manley 2618 forged 11cc .020 over pistons are 343g and with the pin weigh 431g. http://www.manleyperformance.com/nic..._pistons.shtml
I haven't been able to find the weight of the stock Ford hypereutectic pistons (press fit in the case of this engine, it was assembled before Ford changed to the floating pin pistons in 2002). I believe these forged Manley pistons are lighter, though. The machine shop did have to take weight off the crank to balance the assembly, so that is a good thing.
The Manley 2618 forged 11cc .020 over pistons are 343g and with the pin weigh 431g. http://www.manleyperformance.com/nic..._pistons.shtml
I haven't been able to find the weight of the stock Ford hypereutectic pistons (press fit in the case of this engine, it was assembled before Ford changed to the floating pin pistons in 2002). I believe these forged Manley pistons are lighter, though. The machine shop did have to take weight off the crank to balance the assembly, so that is a good thing.
10-31-2014, 06:27 PM
#109
2nd Gear Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: IL
Posts: 335
I started cleaning up the oil filter and lower radiator hose adapter to get it ready for the engine build. What I thought was just gasket residue ended up being some pretty serious pitting. I don't want to put it back together like this, because it will likely leak. All of the pitting is around the coolant passage- none on the oil passages. I think I'm going to take it to the machine shop and see if they can mill it down below the pitting. No idea what could have caused this...
11-01-2014, 06:04 AM
#110
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: GA
Posts: 191
I have used JB quick to fill this corrosion pitting on my Vortec 350. Let it set up and once it starts to firm up a sharp razor blade trim it flush. After it has 24 hours or so to set up 400 grit paper on a flat surface.
It works excellent and imo re-machining would take off to much material and weaken the part. This is caused by acid etching from the coolant and the silicone bead on the gasket.
It works excellent and imo re-machining would take off to much material and weaken the part. This is caused by acid etching from the coolant and the silicone bead on the gasket.