Squealing noise, brakes or pinion?
04-06-2016, 01:53 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Az
Posts: 15
Squealing noise, brakes or pinion?
04 GT Mustang 173k (bought it new), but runs very well and is in good condition, I do most of my own work. Car has started to make a squealing noise from the rear area. Squeal is only there for 2-3 miles then stops, so something is warming up then stops. Squealing is only present when moving, squeal rate is totally dependent on forward speed. No dependence to braking, AC on/off, RPM, or clutch position (clutch is fairly new with no problems, took a 2nd shop to get it right but is very nice now).
Replaced front and rear brake pads, very little wear on pads, but no change. Pulled rear rotors, they are old but smooth and look good. Just encase ground down the outer edge (not inner edge) on both sides of rotors so the rear rotors are flush with edge, but again no change. Front rotors are only about 3 years old.
Have had past problems with the pinion seal, 2 different shops have replaced it about 5 times
, have no idea what they are doing wrong, this and the clutch are examples of why I prefer to do my own work. At some point I plan to replace the entire pinion myself (not just the seal).
If someone could give me some ideas or advice that would be great.
Thanks
Replaced front and rear brake pads, very little wear on pads, but no change. Pulled rear rotors, they are old but smooth and look good. Just encase ground down the outer edge (not inner edge) on both sides of rotors so the rear rotors are flush with edge, but again no change. Front rotors are only about 3 years old.
Have had past problems with the pinion seal, 2 different shops have replaced it about 5 times
, have no idea what they are doing wrong, this and the clutch are examples of why I prefer to do my own work. At some point I plan to replace the entire pinion myself (not just the seal).If someone could give me some ideas or advice that would be great.
Thanks
04-06-2016, 05:25 AM
#3
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 223
can you visually a connecting area? has your car ever been hit in rear? I bought after market drilled and slotted roters and I hade one disk grind in to my caliper all it took was adding a washer to the main connecting bolt fixed the grind.. if you see that is an issue here is that thread
https://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l...placement.html
https://mustangforums.com/forum/4-6l...placement.html
04-06-2016, 11:42 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Az
Posts: 15
Read your post on the washer shim, thanks, learned some more. I had not changed anything on the car when the squealing fist started so I wouldn't think shimming would be needed. Car has never been hit in rear. But after reading the post I think I can get a look to see how things are playing.
Later today plan to suspend rear on jack stands and put in low gear. This will enable me to confirm if the noise is coming from the brakes or pinion.
Then if its the brakes (with the car off) I can then remove the tire and check the brake assembly play to see what is rubbing.
Thanks
Later today plan to suspend rear on jack stands and put in low gear. This will enable me to confirm if the noise is coming from the brakes or pinion.
Then if its the brakes (with the car off) I can then remove the tire and check the brake assembly play to see what is rubbing.
Thanks
04-08-2016, 08:19 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Az
Posts: 15
Put the car up on jack stands, removed tires, bolted rotor so it would sit correctly. Car continued to make squeal noise as desired. Noise was equal from both sides. Using a mechanics stethoscope could not pickup any squeal from the brake pads or differential.
Checked gear oil level in differential and it is good.
I am at a loss for wear this noise is coming from and why it stops after a few miles.
Checked gear oil level in differential and it is good.
I am at a loss for wear this noise is coming from and why it stops after a few miles.
04-08-2016, 09:38 PM
#6
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Florida
Posts: 223
is it only while moving? if so might want to check your rear diff I just had a 4.10 put in and they told me I had nothing left..... AT OWN RISK...one way to find out is to just do a burn out if only one wheel spins your diff is going out,just ask someone to watch.. just another thing to try.
04-09-2016, 06:59 AM
#7
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: ohio
Posts: 3,628
9 times out of 10 when your pinion seal starts leaking its because of an internal problem in the differential. Most likely the pinion bearings are going bad. You cant just pull the pinion nut replace the seal and pop the nut back on. It needs to have the bearing preload reset to spec either by setting the preload to spec for a used crush sleeve or a new one. Get under the car and see if you can move the pinion flange around, because I suspect that if your going through pinion seals like that then its time for pinion bearings. Get it taken care of and don't wait for the pinion and ring gear to explode.
04-18-2016, 11:48 AM
#8
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Alberta
Posts: 61
You should be able to check if the bearings are bad in the pinion by pushing on the yoke and checking for any play (there should be none). If the pinion is leaking and someone has replaced a seals with no success, and the bearings have no play then most likely the pinion yoke is worn down where the seal rides and cannot seal anymore. should replace the yoke not the pinion.
as for the squealing from the rear, check the driveshaft and grease it up it can make a bunch of squealing noises. grease the joints and the dust boot on the transmission output shaft (with needle grease adapter)
as for the squealing from the rear, check the driveshaft and grease it up it can make a bunch of squealing noises. grease the joints and the dust boot on the transmission output shaft (with needle grease adapter)
04-20-2016, 10:31 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Az
Posts: 15
Got under the car and can't move the shaft or prion flange forward or backward. Most I can do is get about 1 degree or less of circular rotation/play, not sure if that is normal or bad.
Got a grease needle adapter and applied grease to both yokes and the output of the transmission. There are no zerts and no idea where I was suppose to be placing the grease needle so in the end I ended up using my fingers to apply grease as good as I could to the yoke pivot areas. This didn't change the squealing but maybe I did it wrong, there are no zerts and I'm not jamming that needle into any seals.
Under the advice of a friend to figure out if this is a brake or differential problem I put the car up with one rear wheel up, the other on the ground, then chocked the car so it would not move. The car still made the same squeal noise with either wheel down. So I am confident it is not the brakes. Its a limited slip differential so this shouldn't have hurt anything.
Looking over the mechanics manual it talks of 3 possible causes for the noise, the most likely sounds like worn pinion bearings. This would explain the noise but I'm not sure about the leakage.
RMK01GT, you mentioned "You should be able to check if the bearings are bad in the pinion by pushing on the yoke and checking for any play (there should be none). If the pinion is leaking and someone has replaced a seals with no success, and the bearings have no play then most likely the pinion yoke is worn down where the seal rides and cannot seal anymore. should replace the yoke not the pinion."
I am confused, to me the pinion and pinion yoke are the same thing. I realize the pinion is a an assembly so maybe that is were is am getting confused.
I think I have taken my trouble shooting as far as I can and don't have the skill level to pull apart a differential and fix it correctly. Most likely I will take it to a transmission shop and emphasis that the pinion seal has been replaced 5 times and that more than the seal needs to be done.
Thanks for everyone's input, I wish I could fix this myself but I know my limits.
Got a grease needle adapter and applied grease to both yokes and the output of the transmission. There are no zerts and no idea where I was suppose to be placing the grease needle so in the end I ended up using my fingers to apply grease as good as I could to the yoke pivot areas. This didn't change the squealing but maybe I did it wrong, there are no zerts and I'm not jamming that needle into any seals.
Under the advice of a friend to figure out if this is a brake or differential problem I put the car up with one rear wheel up, the other on the ground, then chocked the car so it would not move. The car still made the same squeal noise with either wheel down. So I am confident it is not the brakes. Its a limited slip differential so this shouldn't have hurt anything.
Looking over the mechanics manual it talks of 3 possible causes for the noise, the most likely sounds like worn pinion bearings. This would explain the noise but I'm not sure about the leakage.
RMK01GT, you mentioned "You should be able to check if the bearings are bad in the pinion by pushing on the yoke and checking for any play (there should be none). If the pinion is leaking and someone has replaced a seals with no success, and the bearings have no play then most likely the pinion yoke is worn down where the seal rides and cannot seal anymore. should replace the yoke not the pinion."
I am confused, to me the pinion and pinion yoke are the same thing. I realize the pinion is a an assembly so maybe that is were is am getting confused.
I think I have taken my trouble shooting as far as I can and don't have the skill level to pull apart a differential and fix it correctly. Most likely I will take it to a transmission shop and emphasis that the pinion seal has been replaced 5 times and that more than the seal needs to be done.
Thanks for everyone's input, I wish I could fix this myself but I know my limits.
04-21-2016, 10:20 AM
#10
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 939
The pinion yoke is the rear end of the driveshaft, which is bolted to the circular pinion flange. The pinion flange is what contacts the rubber of the pinion seal.
Despite the rubber's pliability, it can wear a slight groove in the steel pinion flange over time, and even a new seal will have a hard time holding oil. Worn pinion bearings allow the flange to ride harder against the seal, which exacerbates the wear effect.
There are "seal saver" kits that you can buy, which are little more than a thin sleeve that slides over the flange to provide a fresh sealing surface. But last I checked it was only a few dollars more to just buy a whole new flange instead.
Despite the rubber's pliability, it can wear a slight groove in the steel pinion flange over time, and even a new seal will have a hard time holding oil. Worn pinion bearings allow the flange to ride harder against the seal, which exacerbates the wear effect.
There are "seal saver" kits that you can buy, which are little more than a thin sleeve that slides over the flange to provide a fresh sealing surface. But last I checked it was only a few dollars more to just buy a whole new flange instead.