Degreeing Cams
05-15-2016, 05:56 PM
#1
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Degreeing Cams
So I bought a degree wheel on Ebay and now i'm going to degree my cams.
I have a 4.6L 2V out of a 2005 Lincoln, i have searched the forum and the web as well and i'm having trouble locating the intake center line specification, i have found ranges 108 - 110, but nothing from FORD stating specifically what it is?
Anyone know where i can find this information?
I have a 4.6L 2V out of a 2005 Lincoln, i have searched the forum and the web as well and i'm having trouble locating the intake center line specification, i have found ranges 108 - 110, but nothing from FORD stating specifically what it is?
Anyone know where i can find this information?
05-16-2016, 02:30 PM
#2
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No one not even an opinion, i guess everyone would rather read about jwogg and ox argue over who knows more and who's right and who's wrong.
Ask a TECH QUESTION and nothing
Ask a TECH QUESTION and nothing
Last edited by WJL; 05-16-2016 at 02:37 PM.
05-16-2016, 07:57 PM
#3
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Now now! Don't get your panties in a bunch!
Heres the article I used to refresh my memory when I did mine.
http://www.modularheadshop.com/camdegree.aspx
Heres the article I used to refresh my memory when I did mine.
http://www.modularheadshop.com/camdegree.aspx
05-17-2016, 02:45 PM
#4
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Ya i know i get a little impatient, i read that article what i'm looking for is the factory cam timing i.e. zero degree advanced/retarded.
If i get time tonight i'm going to degree the cams just to see where they are at. i will not know if they are advanced or retarded until i can find the Intake center line which i know is somewhere between 108 crankshaft degrees and 110 crankshaft degrees from other post i have read.
I'm looking for what the factory crankshaft degree should be and just can't seem to find it.
What i'm looking for is the camshaft intake lobe center
If i get time tonight i'm going to degree the cams just to see where they are at. i will not know if they are advanced or retarded until i can find the Intake center line which i know is somewhere between 108 crankshaft degrees and 110 crankshaft degrees from other post i have read.
I'm looking for what the factory crankshaft degree should be and just can't seem to find it.
What i'm looking for is the camshaft intake lobe center
Last edited by WJL; 05-17-2016 at 03:18 PM.
05-17-2016, 04:07 PM
#5
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everything i could find on Comp Cams shows the intake lobe center at 110 degrees
Stopped by the local Ford Dealer talked to their best engine guy he told me they don't degree cams he was nice enough to look on their computer but couldn't find anything.
Hmmm, makes me wonder how many people actually degree cams????
Stopped by the local Ford Dealer talked to their best engine guy he told me they don't degree cams he was nice enough to look on their computer but couldn't find anything.
Hmmm, makes me wonder how many people actually degree cams????
05-18-2016, 09:41 AM
#6
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Straight from mhs' site:
What is this issue with install centerline?
Its simply the location of the lobes in respect to the motion of the piston. Specifically its showing the location of the peak of cam lift in degrees to the piston after TDC (top dead center) The below are showing what happens moving the ICL - Intake Center Line to different locations:
A street N/A car running at 7000RPM or below typically wants about 106-110 degrees on the intake location point. However the smaller you make this number the exponentially fast you lose intake valve clearance. 110 is a good location for cams smaller than 230 degrees of duration at 0.050" lift. The earlier (smaller) you make the intake centerline the better the midrange torque of the engine.
110-112 works good for boosted engines as the boost pressure helps to start the intake flow. The N/A motors don't have boost so the earlier we open the intake valve the earlier we can start moving the air into the bore. Higher RPM NA cars with restricted intakes can look at ~112 for an install centerline. What happens here is that if the point is reached that something in the intake tract is restricting, the later you close the intake valve the higher the HP you can get on the top end. Our "R" series cams are designed with this, it also allows more intake valve to piston clearance.
114+ is used by the factory for emissions reasons, they have been doing this since the early 1970's. It has been a common trick to "advance" a cam since the 1970's to gain performance. Basically if starting with a 115 intake install centerline and advancing it 5 degrees you end up with a 110 intake install centerline. We simply grind the cams this way since its very hard to advance these in car without spending $400 on a good set of adjustable gears.
Personally, I would suggest about 109-110 for the simply because they are factory pi cams. Most people just line up the timing marks and go but since you have the tools there to degree cams, I would go ahead with it. I degreed my Comp 270's at 106/107. The advancement helped bring the power band down a bit.
What is this issue with install centerline?
Its simply the location of the lobes in respect to the motion of the piston. Specifically its showing the location of the peak of cam lift in degrees to the piston after TDC (top dead center) The below are showing what happens moving the ICL - Intake Center Line to different locations:
A street N/A car running at 7000RPM or below typically wants about 106-110 degrees on the intake location point. However the smaller you make this number the exponentially fast you lose intake valve clearance. 110 is a good location for cams smaller than 230 degrees of duration at 0.050" lift. The earlier (smaller) you make the intake centerline the better the midrange torque of the engine.
110-112 works good for boosted engines as the boost pressure helps to start the intake flow. The N/A motors don't have boost so the earlier we open the intake valve the earlier we can start moving the air into the bore. Higher RPM NA cars with restricted intakes can look at ~112 for an install centerline. What happens here is that if the point is reached that something in the intake tract is restricting, the later you close the intake valve the higher the HP you can get on the top end. Our "R" series cams are designed with this, it also allows more intake valve to piston clearance.
114+ is used by the factory for emissions reasons, they have been doing this since the early 1970's. It has been a common trick to "advance" a cam since the 1970's to gain performance. Basically if starting with a 115 intake install centerline and advancing it 5 degrees you end up with a 110 intake install centerline. We simply grind the cams this way since its very hard to advance these in car without spending $400 on a good set of adjustable gears.
Personally, I would suggest about 109-110 for the simply because they are factory pi cams. Most people just line up the timing marks and go but since you have the tools there to degree cams, I would go ahead with it. I degreed my Comp 270's at 106/107. The advancement helped bring the power band down a bit.
05-18-2016, 02:53 PM
#7
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You are the man School, if it wasn't for the penguin game tonight i'd be in the garage right now.
I'm looking for anywhere between 109 & 110 degrees Stock cams i mainly want to balance the cams and it will be good practice for when i do get cams
Thanks and i will let you know what i find
I'm looking for anywhere between 109 & 110 degrees Stock cams i mainly want to balance the cams and it will be good practice for when i do get cams
Thanks and i will let you know what i find
05-18-2016, 06:36 PM
#9
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Once i know what they are i plan on figuring that out, if it's a degree or two i'm told you can sometimes pick that up with slop in the cam keyway, if more than that i will go with a adjustable crankshaft gear.
More than likely an adjustable crank gear. lots of stories on the adjustable cam gears.
What's your experience?
More than likely an adjustable crank gear. lots of stories on the adjustable cam gears.
What's your experience?
05-18-2016, 08:03 PM
#10
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I personally went with Trickflow adjustable crankshaft gears. Adjustable camshaft gears are just asking for trouble. They tend to slip under a load after a while. There are offset ground keys you could use and buy after you find out how many degrees the cams are off 110. Seen many people run these without any trouble as long as you properly install and torque the camshaft bolts.