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lets talk dyno graphs

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Old 01-04-2010, 02:28 AM   #1
0949er
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Default lets talk dyno graphs

Reading another thread and this popped into my head. Take my dyno graph:

Click the image to open in full size.

What are causes my motor to stop making power at around 5k RPMS, and slowly die off? The idea with the cams is to make power well into the 6k + rpm range correct?

So am I hitting some kind of "limit" with my current setup? Or is that simply the power curve of the engine, and there isn't much you can do about it? I am just curious. Thanks for your help in advanced.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:52 AM   #2
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The intake manifold is the limiting factor here. Everything looks normal based on your setup.
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Old 01-04-2010, 08:59 AM   #3
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Thank you MRT...i couldn't think of what the answer was. I was sitting here for like 10 mins tryin to figure it out lol.
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:04 AM   #4
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Well cams are supposed to make the car pull higher into the rpm band. I mean stock cars stop making power right around 5200rpm's so idk if its the cams he's running or what, but when i usually see a cammed gt's dyno sheet, the power usually is moved up in the powerband some...at least a couple hundred rpm's if im not mistaken. so i dont know why your car only peaks at like 5200-5300.
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Saying there is a 1whp difference between the X and H and trying to justify it as a performance difference, is like walking 100 feet to your car and eating a cheeseburger while saying its fine because you just did "cardio".
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Old 01-04-2010, 09:25 AM   #5
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Those Comp's did shift the powerband a couple hundred rpm higher. No matter what cams you run, the stock intake will be a limiting factor, epecially after 6k.

Given his setup, everything looks totally correct to me. They peak a couple hundred rpm higher, start pulling hard at 4.5k, 30 hp gain at the peak, and have slight losses down low.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:37 AM   #6
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so you think my stock intake manifold is the limiting factor? can you go into more detail? Is it due to lack of air or anything? I'm trying to "visualize" the bottle-neck haha. No real reason, I just want to visualize it in my head.
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Old 01-04-2010, 11:41 AM   #7
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mrstang, are you really pushing 269/305 w/ just a throttle body?

I cant belive that adding a set of cams will only add 15 wrhp and 5 wrtq. What am I missing on your setup? A throttle body / plenum cant possible help that much? (Im just simply
saying that we have pretty much the same setups (minus the throttle body, and I have cams) but we are for the most park makign the same numbers. what gives?
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by 0949er View Post
mrstang, are you really pushing 269/305 w/ just a throttle body?

I cant belive that adding a set of cams will only add 15 wrhp and 5 wrtq. What am I missing on your setup? A throttle body / plenum cant possible help that much? (Im just simply
saying that we have pretty much the same setups (minus the throttle body, and I have cams) but we are for the most park makign the same numbers. what gives?
hes got longtubes and other mods?
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:14 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by MU71L4710N View Post
hes got longtubes and other mods?
I know, thats what im saying.


We have the same mods EXCEPT I have cams and he has a Throttle body. Yet, we are making almost the same numbers.

Im just saying that in comparison, my numbers look low.
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:21 PM   #10
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With adding cams you added more power. To make more power you need more fuel and air. So when you are at a higher rpm your car is demanding more fuel and air. On the fuel side of it you are ok but you aren't getting enough air into your engine to make hp at a higher rpm.

We had a recent thread talking about the Edelbrock Victor Jr intake manifold. A guy over at Corral had ported heads, cams and bolt ons. With the Edelbrock he made over 50rwhp more at 6000rpm than he did with the stock manifold. Which allowed him to keep making power longer.

Think of it like you are running your fastest but you are breathing through a straw. You wouldn't be able to run your fastest for to long and would eventually start to slow down. Now take the straw out and run your fastest. You will be able to go your fastest for longer. That isn't the greatest example but you should get the point of what your intake manifold is doing to your car.

Also when you add your s/c, your intake manifold is going to continue to restrict air at higher rpms. Sxynerd had one in his setup and loved it.

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Old 01-04-2010, 12:24 PM   #11
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yes that is 100% clear thank you.

So if intake manifolds are such a bottle neck, why isn't there much focus on them in regards to producing power? Hell, the only intake manifold I know of that isnt stock is the typhoon one, and it seems that all you hear about that is it is a expensive waste of money.

How would adding a throttle body/plenum add to my air intake?
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:26 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0949er View Post
I know, thats what im saying.


We have the same mods EXCEPT I have cams and he has a Throttle body. Yet, we are making almost the same numbers.

Im just saying that in comparison, my numbers look low.
Not sure if it makes much of a difference but he also has u/d pullys and a CAI... and maybe a better tune?
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:28 PM   #13
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Adding a new TB/Plenum may help just a bit but the air still has to go through your intake manifold, which is still your limiting factor.

People don't add a new intake manifold because most people have just boltons and to really see "worthy" gains, you need cams and or heads to make it worth buying.

If I were you I would look into a new intake ($500 or so) and bigger injectors.
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0949er View Post
yes that is 100% clear thank you.

So if intake manifolds are such a bottle neck, why isn't there much focus on them in regards to producing power? Hell, the only intake manifold I know of that isnt stock is the typhoon one, and it seems that all you hear about that is it is a expensive waste of money.

How would adding a throttle body/plenum add to my air intake?
Take a look at this... its had some info about manifolds
Edelbrock Victor Jr. Manifold questions...
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Old 01-04-2010, 12:46 PM   #15
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OP, what i'm saying is that the stock intake manifold will determine where your power drops off. Those stage 2's would pull a little further (same peak numbers with a slight loss down low possibly) with an aftermarket one.

I'm not sure what your total mods are, but my numbers are not too far out of the ordinary. Most full bolt on gt's out here make 260-265 hp. Dynos vary all the time, so keep that in mind too.

Like i stated earlier, you numbers look totally normal...both pre and post cams. Where you car peaks, and drops is very normal.

Unless i'm not understanding your question correctly, i really don't see what the problem or concern is.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:31 PM   #16
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there is no problem really at all. I am just simply trying to understand the actual graph (and why it behaves the way it does)

That's all haha. I like technical info... its juicy
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:33 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 0949er View Post
there is no problem really at all. I am just simply trying to understand the actual graph (and why it behaves the way it does)

That's all haha. I like technical info... its juicy
Juicy... Nice word usage. lol
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:38 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 02stang2113 View Post
Take a look at this... its had some info about manifolds
Edelbrock Victor Jr. Manifold questions...
is that suppose to be a link? because if not, i don't get it lol.
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Old 01-04-2010, 01:55 PM   #19
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is that suppose to be a link? because if not, i don't get it lol.
Oh sorry, yea that is supposed to be a link dont know why it didnt work but i think its on like page 5 or something... it has some info about power gains of manifolds and some good brands
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Old 01-04-2010, 04:45 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by 0949er View Post
mrstang, are you really pushing 269/305 w/ just a throttle body?

I cant belive that adding a set of cams will only add 15 wrhp and 5 wrtq. What am I missing on your setup? A throttle body / plenum cant possible help that much? (Im just simply
saying that we have pretty much the same setups (minus the throttle body, and I have cams) but we are for the most park makign the same numbers. what gives?
you can't compare 2 different cars on 2 different dynos. Hell you can't compare the same car on different dynos. Dyno #'s can and will get manipulated by tuners to make a "happy customer". We all know that a Mustang Dyno reads higher than a dynojet but my car put down about 15 more rwhp on a MD than a DJ (320 vs 306), once again proving that dyno #'s don't mean squat.
The intake is part of the problem but the stock heads don't help. My car with ported heads made max power around 6k rpms. Ask yourself how how do you really want to rev that engine? Keep in mind that max power isn't where you always shift at. Everyone has their own opinions and research but from what I was told you want to shift at 10% over max hp. That may or may not be correct (probably not which explain why I'm so slow), so that would put me at 6600 rpms, IMO that's plenty high, an aftermarket intake would put it closer to 7k.
Have you ever ran your car at the track with the cams? If so what did it run? the MPH should be the true way to tell the cars power. BTW my car on the DJ on a 100 shot made ~400rwhp (that to me is way off considering it trapped 120.3 mph) Which I think is what JayC traps on a 150 shot and he's over 450rwhp. On that same DJ I made 306rwhp NA and trapped 111mph, IMO that MPH is a tad high for 306rwhp. Hope I didn't confuse you just trying to show that you shouldn't put much stock in dyno #'s.

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Old 01-04-2010, 04:45 PM
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