Best of mods?
12-31-2011, 02:35 AM
#1
Best of mods?
Ok guys its getting close to that time where im about done with apperance and want to start getting some hp nothing to serious but just to have some fun without a s/c and turbo i'm only 18 so im doing preety good for where im at this point and not spoiled and working most of time but anyway i was curious what items i should get first i will be going with some 3:73's and tuner but curious what is best like whats the best cai and exhaust and also are pulleys worth the trouble?
My list
cai
underdrive pulleys
exhaust
tuner
throttlebody
spacers
and mayber later down the road headers and cams of some sort
also what kind of numbers do you guys think id be pulling and the flywheel and rwhp? thanks
My list
cai
underdrive pulleys
exhaust
tuner
throttlebody
spacers
and mayber later down the road headers and cams of some sort
also what kind of numbers do you guys think id be pulling and the flywheel and rwhp? thanks
Last edited by Bigry18; 12-31-2011 at 02:37 AM.
12-31-2011, 02:44 AM
#2
3rd Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 966
Skip cams unless you really want them for the sound value, all of those other things you listed are great ideas. I'd say if you want some good butt dyno value, go with cai/tune with an o/r midpipe ( if you're okay being illegal ) assuming you're already doing the gears and you'll feel a pretty significant difference
12-31-2011, 04:10 AM
#3
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
This is long because my chronic insomnia kicked in, so bear with me...
Forget the CAI, the one that came with the car costs nothing and is every bit as good as any aftermarket piece--not as pretty but it flows just as much air.
What I recommend, in this order, are:
Open up the exhaust, 2-1/2" from the manifolds back. Catted or "off-road" mid-pipe (doesn't matter from a power perspective, however the o/r pipe will be a lot louder).
H or X-pipe as you prefer, the X-pipe lets the engine wind up into the higher rpms better making full use of the overhead cam design. They sound different H-pipe = Musclecar, X-pipe = NASCAR, and many (myself included) feel that straight-through mufflers like the MagnaFlows sound better with an X-pipe than chambered mufflers like the Flowmasters. An X-pipe with Flows' can be raspy sounding at WOT.
Then rear-end gears, and a tuner to at least calibrate the speedometer--but more importantly to get rid of the pathetic OEM tune which has far too conservative spark timing and runs pig rich at WOT. Load a tune optimised for the highest octane fuel you can or are willing to buy. Even if you stick with 87 octane swill a proper tune will wake up the engine quite noticeably.
TB/upper plenum. The plenum is the weak point; any aftermarket plenum will flow better with the stock 65 mm TB, than will the stock plenum with any aftermarket TB of any size. So if you do them one at a time do the plenum upgrade first--read more about this here. The Professional Products TB and plenum are affordable and perfrom as well as any:
After that the sequence for bolt-ons doesn't matter as much.
UDPs are great if you are the sort that accelerates rapidly across the whole powerband, in the lower gears. I like 'em for that reason. If you are the sort that does not do that, and/or shifts at 3000 rpm you will not notice much difference if any.
I don't know what you mean by "spacers", however if you mean throttle body or upper plenum spacers don't waste your money. Just get a 70 mm TB and aftermarket plenum and be done with it. If you read the link I listed above you will see that any aftermarket plenum and a 70 mm TB can supply plenty of air for the 4.6L 2V; even at 100% VE, if that were possible.
Cams/heads can make a difference, however if they are selected so as make a big difference then there will be a price to pay in a shifted and likely narrowed powerband. That can make a daily driver kind of a pain to drive daily. Without getting into detail I present the following as a real-world example.
The early Honda S2000 had a 2.0 L naturally aspirated 4-banger producing 240 fwHP and 153 lb-ft of torque, at 8300 and 7500 rpm respectively, all through great flowing heads and very aggressive cams. The problem was that 2000 to 2500 rpm it was a dog and to launch it with any kind of spirit from a stoplight you had to bring it up to 3500 rpm.
A friend had one and driving it around town quickly wore thin--I saw a review back then that said it was fun to drive, "if you drive it like you just stole it". In 2004 they added 150 cc to the engine, still 240 HP but they reground the cams to make more low-end torque and make it more driveable.
I hate HP guesstimates because they always generate a string of anecdotal followups and challenges (to which I will not respond), however with a good tune and 93 octane fuel, a TB/plenum upgrade, and long tube headers, but without cam and head mods, you should be able to get up to 260-270 rwHP. Drivetrain loss with a 5-speed is around 15% so divide the rwHP by 0.85 to calculate estimated fwHP.
With streetable cams and head work, and a good tune; 285-290 at the wheels. The 2V just doesn't breath that well on it's own...
-------------------------------------------
Also, before doing any of the above get an MGW shifter:
Forget the CAI, the one that came with the car costs nothing and is every bit as good as any aftermarket piece--not as pretty but it flows just as much air.
What I recommend, in this order, are:
Open up the exhaust, 2-1/2" from the manifolds back. Catted or "off-road" mid-pipe (doesn't matter from a power perspective, however the o/r pipe will be a lot louder).
H or X-pipe as you prefer, the X-pipe lets the engine wind up into the higher rpms better making full use of the overhead cam design. They sound different H-pipe = Musclecar, X-pipe = NASCAR, and many (myself included) feel that straight-through mufflers like the MagnaFlows sound better with an X-pipe than chambered mufflers like the Flowmasters. An X-pipe with Flows' can be raspy sounding at WOT.
Then rear-end gears, and a tuner to at least calibrate the speedometer--but more importantly to get rid of the pathetic OEM tune which has far too conservative spark timing and runs pig rich at WOT. Load a tune optimised for the highest octane fuel you can or are willing to buy. Even if you stick with 87 octane swill a proper tune will wake up the engine quite noticeably.
TB/upper plenum. The plenum is the weak point; any aftermarket plenum will flow better with the stock 65 mm TB, than will the stock plenum with any aftermarket TB of any size. So if you do them one at a time do the plenum upgrade first--read more about this here. The Professional Products TB and plenum are affordable and perfrom as well as any:
After that the sequence for bolt-ons doesn't matter as much.
UDPs are great if you are the sort that accelerates rapidly across the whole powerband, in the lower gears. I like 'em for that reason. If you are the sort that does not do that, and/or shifts at 3000 rpm you will not notice much difference if any.
I don't know what you mean by "spacers", however if you mean throttle body or upper plenum spacers don't waste your money. Just get a 70 mm TB and aftermarket plenum and be done with it. If you read the link I listed above you will see that any aftermarket plenum and a 70 mm TB can supply plenty of air for the 4.6L 2V; even at 100% VE, if that were possible.
Cams/heads can make a difference, however if they are selected so as make a big difference then there will be a price to pay in a shifted and likely narrowed powerband. That can make a daily driver kind of a pain to drive daily. Without getting into detail I present the following as a real-world example.
The early Honda S2000 had a 2.0 L naturally aspirated 4-banger producing 240 fwHP and 153 lb-ft of torque, at 8300 and 7500 rpm respectively, all through great flowing heads and very aggressive cams. The problem was that 2000 to 2500 rpm it was a dog and to launch it with any kind of spirit from a stoplight you had to bring it up to 3500 rpm.
A friend had one and driving it around town quickly wore thin--I saw a review back then that said it was fun to drive, "if you drive it like you just stole it". In 2004 they added 150 cc to the engine, still 240 HP but they reground the cams to make more low-end torque and make it more driveable.
I hate HP guesstimates because they always generate a string of anecdotal followups and challenges (to which I will not respond), however with a good tune and 93 octane fuel, a TB/plenum upgrade, and long tube headers, but without cam and head mods, you should be able to get up to 260-270 rwHP. Drivetrain loss with a 5-speed is around 15% so divide the rwHP by 0.85 to calculate estimated fwHP.
With streetable cams and head work, and a good tune; 285-290 at the wheels. The 2V just doesn't breath that well on it's own...
-------------------------------------------
Also, before doing any of the above get an MGW shifter:
Last edited by cliffyk; 12-31-2011 at 09:38 AM.
12-31-2011, 04:32 AM
#4
TECH SAVANT
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Saint Augustine, FL
Posts: 10,938
I forgot to specifically address the which "exhaust" is best issue. If by "best" you mean which brand it really doesn't matter with regard to a mid-pipe and catback. They are just pieces of pipe bent to fit under the car in the same space more or less as the stock system. Very little rocket science involved.
The cheapest ones will be the cheapest ones¹, expect and be ready for fitment problems--however spending more does not necessarily get better fit. If you live in the rust-belt, drive in the winter, and plan on keeping the car for more than 2 years get stainless steel.
The best headers are Kooks', not inexpensive but they are the best IMHO. I have seen a set of their 4V long tubes and they are far too pretty to be hidden under a car...
----------------------------------------------------
¹ - Knight's 1st rule of acquisition:
"If you buy the cheapest there is, there is a very good possibility you will get the cheapest there is. This is not always so, however it is more often than not."
The cheapest ones will be the cheapest ones¹, expect and be ready for fitment problems--however spending more does not necessarily get better fit. If you live in the rust-belt, drive in the winter, and plan on keeping the car for more than 2 years get stainless steel.
The best headers are Kooks', not inexpensive but they are the best IMHO. I have seen a set of their 4V long tubes and they are far too pretty to be hidden under a car...
----------------------------------------------------
¹ - Knight's 1st rule of acquisition:
"If you buy the cheapest there is, there is a very good possibility you will get the cheapest there is. This is not always so, however it is more often than not."
12-31-2011, 06:01 PM
#9
This is long because my chronic insomnia kicked in, so bear with me...
Forget the CAI, the one that came with the car costs nothing and is every bit as good as any aftermarket piece--not as pretty but it flows just as much air.
What I recommend, in this order, are:
Open up the exhaust, 2-1/2" from the manifolds back. Catted or "off-road" mid-pipe (doesn't matter from a power perspective, however the o/r pipe will be a lot louder).
H or X-pipe as you prefer, the X-pipe lets the engine wind up into the higher rpms better making full use of the overhead cam design. They sound different H-pipe = Musclecar, X-pipe = NASCAR, and many (myself included) feel that straight-through mufflers like the MagnaFlows sound better with an X-pipe than chambered mufflers like the Flowmasters. An X-pipe with Flows' can be raspy sounding at WOT.
Then rear-end gears, and a tuner to at least calibrate the speedometer--but more importantly to get rid of the pathetic OEM tune which has far too conservative spark timing and runs pig rich at WOT. Load a tune optimised for the highest octane fuel you can or are willing to buy. Even if you stick with 87 octane swill a proper tune will wake up the engine quite noticeably.
TB/upper plenum. The plenum is the weak point; any aftermarket plenum will flow better with the stock 65 mm TB, than will the stock plenum with any aftermarket TB of any size. So if you do them one at a time do the plenum upgrade first--read more about this here. The Professional Products TB and plenum are affordable and perfrom as well as any:
After that the sequence for bolt-ons doesn't matter as much.
UDPs are great if you are the sort that accelerates rapidly across the whole powerband, in the lower gears. I like 'em for that reason. If you are the sort that does not do that, and/or shifts at 3000 rpm you will not notice much difference if any.
I don't know what you mean by "spacers", however if you mean throttle body or upper plenum spacers don't waste your money. Just get a 70 mm TB and aftermarket plenum and be done with it. If you read the link I listed above you will see that any aftermarket plenum and a 70 mm TB can supply plenty of air for the 4.6L 2V; even at 100% VE, if that were possible.
Cams/heads can make a difference, however if they are selected so as make a big difference then there will be a price to pay in a shifted and likely narrowed powerband. That can make a daily driver kind of a pain to drive daily. Without getting into detail I present the following as a real-world example.
The early Honda S2000 had a 2.0 L naturally aspirated 4-banger producing 240 fwHP and 153 lb-ft of torque, at 8300 and 7500 rpm respectively, all through great flowing heads and very aggressive cams. The problem was that 2000 to 2500 rpm it was a dog and to launch it with any kind of spirit from a stoplight you had to bring it up to 3500 rpm.
A friend had one and driving it around town quickly wore thin--I saw a review back then that said it was fun to drive, "if you drive it like you just stole it". In 2004 they added 150 cc to the engine, still 240 HP but they reground the cams to make more low-end torque and make it more driveable.
I hate HP guesstimates because they always generate a string of anecdotal followups and challenges (to which I will not respond), however with a good tune and 93 octane fuel, a TB/plenum upgrade, and long tube headers, but without cam and head mods, you should be able to get up to 260-270 rwHP. Drivetrain loss with a 5-speed is around 15% so divide the rwHP by 0.85 to calculate estimated fwHP.
With streetable cams and head work, and a good tune; 285-290 at the wheels. The 2V just doesn't breath that well on it's own...
-------------------------------------------
Also, before doing any of the above get an MGW shifter:
Forget the CAI, the one that came with the car costs nothing and is every bit as good as any aftermarket piece--not as pretty but it flows just as much air.
What I recommend, in this order, are:
Open up the exhaust, 2-1/2" from the manifolds back. Catted or "off-road" mid-pipe (doesn't matter from a power perspective, however the o/r pipe will be a lot louder).
H or X-pipe as you prefer, the X-pipe lets the engine wind up into the higher rpms better making full use of the overhead cam design. They sound different H-pipe = Musclecar, X-pipe = NASCAR, and many (myself included) feel that straight-through mufflers like the MagnaFlows sound better with an X-pipe than chambered mufflers like the Flowmasters. An X-pipe with Flows' can be raspy sounding at WOT.
Then rear-end gears, and a tuner to at least calibrate the speedometer--but more importantly to get rid of the pathetic OEM tune which has far too conservative spark timing and runs pig rich at WOT. Load a tune optimised for the highest octane fuel you can or are willing to buy. Even if you stick with 87 octane swill a proper tune will wake up the engine quite noticeably.
TB/upper plenum. The plenum is the weak point; any aftermarket plenum will flow better with the stock 65 mm TB, than will the stock plenum with any aftermarket TB of any size. So if you do them one at a time do the plenum upgrade first--read more about this here. The Professional Products TB and plenum are affordable and perfrom as well as any:
After that the sequence for bolt-ons doesn't matter as much.
UDPs are great if you are the sort that accelerates rapidly across the whole powerband, in the lower gears. I like 'em for that reason. If you are the sort that does not do that, and/or shifts at 3000 rpm you will not notice much difference if any.
I don't know what you mean by "spacers", however if you mean throttle body or upper plenum spacers don't waste your money. Just get a 70 mm TB and aftermarket plenum and be done with it. If you read the link I listed above you will see that any aftermarket plenum and a 70 mm TB can supply plenty of air for the 4.6L 2V; even at 100% VE, if that were possible.
Cams/heads can make a difference, however if they are selected so as make a big difference then there will be a price to pay in a shifted and likely narrowed powerband. That can make a daily driver kind of a pain to drive daily. Without getting into detail I present the following as a real-world example.
The early Honda S2000 had a 2.0 L naturally aspirated 4-banger producing 240 fwHP and 153 lb-ft of torque, at 8300 and 7500 rpm respectively, all through great flowing heads and very aggressive cams. The problem was that 2000 to 2500 rpm it was a dog and to launch it with any kind of spirit from a stoplight you had to bring it up to 3500 rpm.
A friend had one and driving it around town quickly wore thin--I saw a review back then that said it was fun to drive, "if you drive it like you just stole it". In 2004 they added 150 cc to the engine, still 240 HP but they reground the cams to make more low-end torque and make it more driveable.
I hate HP guesstimates because they always generate a string of anecdotal followups and challenges (to which I will not respond), however with a good tune and 93 octane fuel, a TB/plenum upgrade, and long tube headers, but without cam and head mods, you should be able to get up to 260-270 rwHP. Drivetrain loss with a 5-speed is around 15% so divide the rwHP by 0.85 to calculate estimated fwHP.
With streetable cams and head work, and a good tune; 285-290 at the wheels. The 2V just doesn't breath that well on it's own...
-------------------------------------------
Also, before doing any of the above get an MGW shifter:
12-31-2011, 10:24 PM
#10
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,481
On an Automatic car, I would do 3.90 or 4.10 gears and a tune.
That will provide you with the greatest improvement for the dollar. After that, I would add FLSFC. Beyond those items, you will get radically different opinions.
GOOD LUCK!!!
BTW, if cams are in your budget, you would NOT regret them.
That will provide you with the greatest improvement for the dollar. After that, I would add FLSFC. Beyond those items, you will get radically different opinions.
GOOD LUCK!!!
BTW, if cams are in your budget, you would NOT regret them.