Well...It's more then a Paper Weight...!!!

[dkersten]

So you dynod with the 94 octane tune before the TB and then put the TB on and saw the gain? A Throttle Body upgrade will only help eliminate a restriction (if there is one to begin with), or maybe help with throttle response (faster TAC?). As stated, the stock TB is good to around 600 rwhp, but can help a little in FI situations below 600rwhp (Kenne Bell sees about +20 rwhp with their stage 2 throttle body on 9 psi boost). The common misperception out there is everything you do to the S197 requires a tune. Many times that is true as sensor changes need to be compensated for, or some fuel mapping may need to change. However, if you look at the results of a tune before and after, you want to see the same AF ratio and the same spark advance. Those 2 factors are the only "tuning" factors that affect maximum horsepower and torque, but they are independent of most modifications to the engine. If you change the net AF ratio or Spark advance when you modify the engine, you can't determine where your power gains come from. To truly see if a gain came from a new modification, you should have your AF ratio and Spark advance tuned to your fuel octane, then dyno the car. Then add the modification, tune for adjustments (ie, headers need to have the delay from the O2 sensors adjusted, CAI usually needs the maf table adjusted or the sensor voltage adjusted to compensate for a bigger maf housing, etc), then log your AF ratio and Spark Advance. If there is no change in those 2 parameters before and after the modification, then dyno the car and any gain or loss you get was a direct result of the modification. ANY other way of doing it will give you false results. Yes, there are some mods that ALLOW you to add more spark advance or lean out your AF ratio. Some people say LT headers allow you to run a little more advance because they pull heat away from the combustion chamber more effectively. Whether that is the case or not is a hot debate. I can't see how a throttle body would allow for leaner conditions or more spark advance, so in this case, the AF and timing should not have been adjusted before and after the mod. If the 94 octane tune was done before the mod, you dyno'd, then put the TB on and adjusted the tune to work with the TB without modifying AF or spark, and you got a gain, then the TB gave you more power. If you did the aggressive tune and TB at the same time, I would put money on the tune being the power adder and the TB being the shiny thing that can double as a paper weight..

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[SirKnightTG]

Originally Posted by dkersten

If the 94 octane tune was done before the mod, you dyno'd, then put the TB on and adjusted the tune to work with the TB without modifying AF or spark, and you got a gain, then the TB gave you more power.

07_GT_E_UPP, is there any way you could confirm this with your tuner? It's got me more curious now.

[157db]

Originally Posted by mac10chap

i thought this was gonna be a throttle body spacer thread

+1

Whats up wit that?

[modaddict]

Nobody is 'hating' here - just trying to keep it real.

dkertsen is spot on the money when he talks about 'restriction'...that is the key word.

No matter what you read on the internet, the magazines, or vendors tell you - a throttle body does not give you power - nor will it ever.

Now, a TB can DECREASE power when the air being pushed or pulled is at a volume that is at a level that surpasses the efficiency of the diameter of the throttle body but I can GARUNTEE you that under 500 rwhp - that is never going to happen through the stock TB. Quite frankly, you will never be able to push or suck enough air through the stock TB for it to become a restriction on a 3V cubic inch under 500 rwhp.

No way, no how - but go ahead and keep believing the 'hype' - cause there is a lot of it out there on TB's, Intake manifolds, etc, etc.

[modaddict]

Originally Posted by 07 GT E UPP

Hey there SirKnight...
Yep, I had a full 94 Octane Dyno tune done at the Steeda Shop here just a short time ago when my HotRod Cams went in. The other day I just had the Autolite HT1 Plugs and FRPP Throttle Body changed and decided to have another pull or two on the Dyno just to see what the diffence was, and wella. Hmmmm, at this point I really don't give a Rat's Ass what a certain individual thinks here, nor am i going to debate it. I am just happy with the way it looks and the overall outcome. Oh well, some people can be so encouraging, can't they !!! .

ROFL...

You don't give a rat's ass what I think? That's funny considering I've forgotten more than you will ever know about the 3V. I wasn't giving you an opinion - I was giving you facts and you won't debate that because you CAN'T. I defy you to explain to us exactly HOW a TB can add rwhp to an N/A set-up 3V. Do you believe the bigger TB somehow sucks or pushes more air than a smaller throttle body? Do you believe the TB has anything to do with the airflow itself? Please enlighten me...

[SirKnightTG]

Also 07_GT_E_UPP, do you notice anything different in the throttle response? I know I've read about how a TB usually doesn't give much peak HP without major stuff, BUT the throttle response is usually a good amount better with the TB letting in a little more air for each throttle position due to the larger cross sectional area.

I thought EagleStroker was mentioning that in his thread on this TB but I can't remember for sure without searching for that thread. I could have sworn someone talked about this recently.

[07 GT E UPP]

Originally Posted by SirKnightTG

Also 07_GT_E_UPP, do you notice anything different in the throttle response? I know I've read about how a TB usually doesn't give much peak HP without major stuff, BUT the throttle response is usually a good amount better with the TB letting in a little more air for each throttle position due to the larger cross sectional area.

I thought EagleStroker was mentioning that in his thread on this TB but I can't remember for sure without searching for that thread. I could have sworn someone talked about this recently.

For me at this point, I can definately feel a subtle improvement in throttle response, but it's nothing dramatic..

[wasvette]

So if I get this TB and the TB spacer, will I be looking at like 35 rwhp?

[Nuke]

Originally Posted by howarmat

With your other mods you probably will see some gains, its the purely stock to very mild setups that the 'paper wieght' term applies

+1

I'm one of your so-called nay-sayers but I always add the caveat that you'll see some gains if you have other internal mods. I'm really liking what I'm hearing about cams and headers. Throw the TB in there and I like it even more.

I also thought this was going to be TB spacer thread. And I was all set to be a vicious azzhole. Darn it...

[Nuke]

Originally Posted by wasvette

So if I get this TB and the TB spacer, will I be looking at like 35 rwhp?

...smack you.

Anyone that mentions TB spacer deserves a good whack.