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Turbo or Supercharger?

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Old 04-02-2007, 07:17 AM
  #11  
modpower
 
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Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

This is how i feel about the two. With the turbo, you get a better torque curve, andwith better power,but with less reliability(i don't own a turbo car now, but i've owned 2 in the past few years and personaly i don't think they have gotten much more reliable if any). Everyone also knows any fi car comes from the factorywith safe boost levels, thats why they both are pretty reliable. Asfar as runningfi onfactory internalsit isreally a toss up cause either way once the boost is high enough the motor is a time bomb.Myself i prefer to hear the engine soi wouldn't choose either of them. Honestly as far as power adders go, you can call me dumb, or just old school but i'll test my luck with the NX plate kit. I think a car sounds its very best on the gas.
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Old 04-02-2007, 09:09 AM
  #12  
06SaLeEn
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Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

I think the turbo when set at the recommened boost level that comes with the kit your fine, its when you start turning it up that you have issues with a turbo.

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Old 04-02-2007, 06:12 PM
  #13  
androdz
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Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

ORIGINAL: modpower

This is how i feel about the two. With the turbo, you get a better torque curve, andwith better power,but with less reliability(i don't own a turbo car now, but i've owned 2 in the past few years and personaly i don't think they have gotten much more reliable if any). Everyone also knows any fi car comes from the factorywith safe boost levels, thats why they both are pretty reliable. Asfar as runningfi onfactory internalsit isreally a toss up cause either way once the boost is high enough the motor is a time bomb.Myself i prefer to hear the engine soi wouldn't choose either of them. Honestly as far as power adders go, you can call me dumb, or just old school but i'll test my luck with the NX plate kit. I think a car sounds its very best on the gas.
With any power adder at high boost levels it is gonna be less reliable. Superchargers are less reliable because they put more stress on the engine than a turbo does, not to mention you have to keep the belts in good condition or they will start slipping. Any power adder will give you trouble once u start pumping up the boost if you haven't reinforced your drivetrain.

Andrew
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Old 04-03-2007, 04:46 AM
  #14  
carockwell
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Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

A supercharger puts more stress on the engine than a turbo? As boost levels get higher the supercharger starts requiring more power to drive, thereby putting more stress on the engine. Putting a turbo on an engine will increase internal temperatures more than a supercharger. Where those two problems intersect is probably in the 10-12 PSI range.
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Old 04-03-2007, 05:07 AM
  #15  
Arwing
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Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

First off, this is a repost of an earlier one of mine, but I hate retyping it, and it does provide info for the uninformed.

My vote is for a twin-screw Positive Displacement Blower. Both the Saleen, and KB are twin screw designs. The adiabatic efficiency of a twin-screw far surpasses the Roots or the Centri style. This is the overall effeciency of the blower. Basically it's ability to make hp with less boost/less parasitic load. The only other power adder that comes close is a turbo setup.

As for the Roots style, it is also a PD blower, but an older design. A roots is a "looser" fit than a Twin-Screw blower so it has less drag under cruise, but has more "blowby" during high boost/loads, so it's less efficient under load. Anyway here are some comparisons for you:

1. Twin Screw pros:
a. Mild mannered, easy to drive fast, very predictable, linear power curve
b. Quieter in non-boost situations
c. Huge low end torque (400 ft-lbs at 2800RPM) no need for lower gears and lower MPG
d. More usable power on the street due to torque and linear power curve. On 90% of my "Street Races" the other person gives up in the first 100 ft because I "Frog hop" them sooooo Bad. I usually start at 2000 RPM in second gear and the race is over by 5500 in second!!! I never have to go over 75 MPH!!
e. Easy to install and maintain. ONE belt and oil change every 50K miles.

2. Twin Screw Cons:
a. Expensive 4-6K for basic setup
b. heavy. Adds 50-60 lbs to front end of car.
c. Harder on driveline components. Huge low end torque is a bit more stressful on stock components.
d. Hotter. Engine will suffer a bit from "heat Soak" due to extra metal casing from S/C
e. Less MPG. Expect 1-2mpg less overall.
f. Limited High HP potential. (There the law of diminishing returns)
g. "Seem" slower because of very smooth, linear power delivery.

Centrifugal S/C Pros
a. lighter (smaller components)
b. cooler. (also do to smaller components) Less heat sink
c. Less expensive ( about 3.5 -5.5K for good kit)
e. Higher HP potential. (Centi S/C is basically a belt driven Turbo)
f. Get a "Rush" when the power comes on

Centrifugal S/C Cons
a. very troublesome to install. (Many pieces, hoses clamps, fittings, brackets, etc) Look at some of the pics of a Twins screw kit and then look at a Centi kit.
b. higher maintance costs, and time. Lots of fitting, clamps, brackets, etc to get loose.
c. Lack low end torque. Have to "spool up" to get power.
d. Less driveable, more unpredictable power delivery. Harder to control especially in traction limited invironments. A twin screw with good tires will have better traction even though there is more torque because the power delivery is even and controlled, not "on -off" like a centi, or a turbo.
e. Noisy. (All around the loudest of all three discussed here)

Turbo Pros:

a. Cooler (turbo is not doing much when not in boost
b. better MPG (no parasitic draw when not in use)
c. Very high HP potential (U can really turn up the boost on these!)
d. Quiet, even in boost they are very quite
e. Driveability is good. They do have some of the on-off like a Centi S/C but can be controlled easier with boost controllers.
f. Not as hard on engine, driveline components.


Turbo Cons:
a. heavy. Usually as much as twin screw because of all the plumbing/piping involved
b. very troublesome/time consuming to install
c. Also more maintenance hungry. (pipes fittings, hoses etc)
d. No torque down low. (have to spool up).
e. Expensive. Good turbo kits are 6-8K
f. harder to tune

So there you have it. Basically it really boils down to what you want to use the car for. If you want a fire breating 1/4 mile beast, get a Centi S/C, you'll get the most bang for the buck, but loose streetability, and will work on it much more. If you want quiet, super High HP, best MPG, then get a turbo. If you want a "street killa" that will kick most people in the ditch and still provide good daily "Stock like" driveability, and be the most maitenance friendly, get a twinscrew!! I've owned turbo cars before, and I'll tell you, the twin screw is the best fit for all around daily street use with the occasional 1/4 mile jaunt. I wouldn't have anything else.
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:32 PM
  #16  
androdz
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Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

ORIGINAL: carockwell

A supercharger puts more stress on the engine than a turbo? As boost levels get higher the supercharger starts requiring more power to drive, thereby putting more stress on the engine. Putting a turbo on an engine will increase internal temperatures more than a supercharger. Where those two problems intersect is probably in the 10-12 PSI range.
Erm that is why you get a bigger intercooler. Also arwing the lag depends on which turbo you are running. Remember the saleen maxes out at relatively low psi levels. I can get you some dynosheets for turbod' s197s that are doing full boost at 2.7k rpm, when do you reach full boost with a s/c? pherhaps it is @ 6.2k rpm???

Andrew
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Old 04-03-2007, 12:36 PM
  #17  
06SaLeEn
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Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

+1 I have seen them hit as low as 2400 rpm ish.... If you are at full boost at 2400 rpms lets say 400rwhp all the way to 6200 rpm, who is faster the S/C who hits full boost at 6200 rpm or the Turbo who has full boost from 2400-6200 rpm? Turbo! Thats why I went with it . When done right I think you cant go wrong, but I do love allot of the S/C set up's.Just not as much as the turbo!
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Old 04-19-2007, 02:54 AM
  #18  
jrm1900
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Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

My two cents here, if you want to go all out racing go with the turbo, for the street I prefer the SC, they have a flatter torque curve and instant power as low as 2500 rpm or even less, turbo makes huge power at higher rpm you are not likely to use on the streets all the time, most street races are over before hitting 3rd.
You'll probably have more HP potential with the turbo but SC's are good for 800 or so, if you intend to go beyond that, your beastit is not going to be verystreeable anyway.
As pointed out before both systems have pros and cons it is your decision.
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Old 04-19-2007, 08:58 AM
  #19  
06SaLeEn
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Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

To speak for myself, I have higher hp than a s/c at 3000 rpm all the way to 6+rpm. It starts to build at 2k to 3 where its at 9psi. not to argue, but you should drive a new turbo stang and if properly tuned and installed you will see why the turbo has great Hp at low rpm to high rpm. Tq is also insane. I put over 400 ft of tq at just 5100 rpm,(where we shut it down on the dyno) on a mustang dyno.
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Old 04-19-2007, 09:06 AM
  #20  
carmanwelder
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Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

A KB big bore will lay down alot more at 5100 rpm (9psi)than 392 rwhp.
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