Go Back   MustangForums.com > Ford Mustang Tech > 2005 - 2014 Mustangs > GT S197 General Discussion > 4.6L V8 Technical Discussions
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?
Search


4.6L V8 Technical Discussions Any questions about engine, transmission, or gearing can be asked here!

Welcome to Mustang Forums!
Welcome to Mustang Forums.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!


Turbo or Supercharger?

Reply
 
 
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-26-2007, 12:37 AM   #1
91GT
1st Gear Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: United States
Posts: 105
Default Turbo or Supercharger?

I was looking at the difference in power and price between a supercharger and a turbo, they seem to be around the same price for the same power. Whats the pros and cons of each?
This ad is not displayed to registered or logged-in members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Mustang Forums!
__________________
"Have you Chased A Ford Lately"
'69 Cougar XR7/390
'05 Mustang GT
91GT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2007, 10:44 AM   #2
retfr8flyr
3rd Gear Member
 
retfr8flyr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Vehicle: 2006 Mustang GT
Location: Providence Forge, VA
Posts: 740
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

The search tab is your friend. This has been covered so many times it’s getting old.

Earl
__________________
Auto, TurboHorspower TT, Ford GT fuel pumps, Circle-D T/C, DSS Drive Shaft, 3.27 gears with Detroit True-Trac, Moser Axles, Wilwood Frt & Rear Brakes and more.
retfr8flyr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2007, 06:33 PM   #3
06SaLeEn
I ♥ Acer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,136
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

Turbo IMO. Will cost a little more for install unless you do it yourself. Like the guy said use the search
06SaLeEn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 04:05 AM   #4
carockwell
1st Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

No question, the supercharger wins. First, a supercharger is much easierto install and get tuned. Second, you cannot get a turbocharger to produce the instant low end power that a supercharger can. Third, you have a lot more reliability problems with turbos because of the hot exhaust and the difficulty of getting constant air/fuel ratios. If you have an automatic it is a total no brainer, the supercharger is the only way to keep the power up, the turbo slows down too much during the upshift.

The OEM manufacturers can make turbos work, but it takes a lot more development time than a supercharger. If you decide to go with a turbo look for the highest quality exhaust components. The turbos have a nasty habit of working loose because of the expansion-contraction from heat cycles. It is also more difficult to get a good air/fuel tune because the speed of the turbo spool up affects the air/fuel ratio and can result in lean burn with detonation. This is becuse the back pressure changes dramatically as well as the boost pressure resulting in an variable volumetric efficiency for the same boost pressure. Just thought I would give the engineers something to chew on.

Take it from a pro, the supercharger is the way to go.
carockwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 04:13 AM   #5
failurze_art
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Vehicle: 1966, Ford, Mustang
Location: Texas
Posts: 152
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

yeah unless youraddicted to hearing that turbo scream like a wild *** banshee that spilled hot coffee on her crotch while trying to shoot up some more crystal meth.

That being said, superchargers have linear power delivery which means instant power at the throttle. Todays turbo's do have less lag, but they still have some.

YOU FEELIN ME DAWG?
__________________
say la vee
failurze_art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 01:42 PM   #6
06SaLeEn
I ♥ Acer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,136
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

Wow. Boy you guys are either mis informed or just not up to date with todays Turbos. Dont want to get into a long debate about this because I do love S/C, but just some facts about turb to help you out

1) Torque monster! TQ is what gives you great 1/4 times etc..
2) No low end power? You actually get more power longer than a S/C, 2500 rpm I will already be at full boost all the way through my pwoer band.
3) Turbo though take longer to install, they actually are not as hard as you think to tune. Someone who knows what there doing will be able to do so easy
4) Turbo are better on your engine. Your using exhaust to push power, so there more efficent. You can get from 6psi what you can from a 8 from a S/c.
5) IMO equal drives, equal hp the turbo car is faster because A) he has more TQ (more than likely) B) More power longer
6) NO noticeable Turbo lag anymore.

Dont get me wrong, KB,Saleen,Procharger to name a few are great S/C but if money is not really an issue The Turbo is the way to go.
A S/C at high Hp will have Belt slipage etc as a turbo does not have to deal with it.

I have driven both and I prefer the Turbo.

Plus the sound will make you jeez your pants, but so will a KB.lol
06SaLeEn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 01:48 PM   #7
Hufenstang
4th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Vehicle: 2005, Mustang GT
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,371
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: carockwell

No question, the supercharger wins. First, a supercharger is much easierto install and get tuned. Second, you cannot get a turbocharger to produce the instant low end power that a supercharger can. Third, you have a lot more reliability problems with turbos because of the hot exhaust and the difficulty of getting constant air/fuel ratios. If you have an automatic it is a total no brainer, the supercharger is the only way to keep the power up, the turbo slows down too much during the upshift.

The OEM manufacturers can make turbos work, but it takes a lot more development time than a supercharger. If you decide to go with a turbo look for the highest quality exhaust components. The turbos have a nasty habit of working loose because of the expansion-contraction from heat cycles. It is also more difficult to get a good air/fuel tune because the speed of the turbo spool up affects the air/fuel ratio and can result in lean burn with detonation. This is becuse the back pressure changes dramatically as well as the boost pressure resulting in an variable volumetric efficiency for the same boost pressure. Just thought I would give the engineers something to chew on.

Take it from a pro, the supercharger is the way to go.
So very true, anyone that has ever had an aftermarket turbo on one of their cars will know that about after a year you have to have a lot of maitnence to keep leaks and things from happening and that **** gets old, and if it wasnt for that i would recommend a turbo all damn day long. i have had 2 cars with aftermarkets turbo and i know a ton of guys at the mustang club that have had them.. they love it but they all say the same thing about the leaks and stuff after about a year of wear on them.
__________________
2005 Black Mustang GT
298 Stroker motor
TR-6060 6 speed transmission
Saleen SuperShaker
+ a lot more
600+ RWHP Crew
Hufenstang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2007, 02:01 PM   #8
06SaLeEn
I ♥ Acer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,136
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

I just haven't run into many people with those complaints. At least new models etc... True back in the day there were major issues. I just dont agree about the turbo's these days. I guess there will always be the debate Turbo vs S/C.
06SaLeEn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2007, 08:42 PM   #9
androdz
I ♥ Acer
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,090
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Hufenstang

Quote:
ORIGINAL: carockwell

No question, the supercharger wins. First, a supercharger is much easierto install and get tuned. Second, you cannot get a turbocharger to produce the instant low end power that a supercharger can. Third, you have a lot more reliability problems with turbos because of the hot exhaust and the difficulty of getting constant air/fuel ratios. If you have an automatic it is a total no brainer, the supercharger is the only way to keep the power up, the turbo slows down too much during the upshift.

The OEM manufacturers can make turbos work, but it takes a lot more development time than a supercharger. If you decide to go with a turbo look for the highest quality exhaust components. The turbos have a nasty habit of working loose because of the expansion-contraction from heat cycles. It is also more difficult to get a good air/fuel tune because the speed of the turbo spool up affects the air/fuel ratio and can result in lean burn with detonation. This is becuse the back pressure changes dramatically as well as the boost pressure resulting in an variable volumetric efficiency for the same boost pressure. Just thought I would give the engineers something to chew on.

Take it from a pro, the supercharger is the way to go.
So very true, anyone that has ever had an aftermarket turbo on one of their cars will know that about after a year you have to have a lot of maitnence to keep leaks and things from happening and that **** gets old, and if it wasnt for that i would recommend a turbo all damn day long. i have had 2 cars with aftermarkets turbo and i know a ton of guys at the mustang club that have had them.. they love it but they all say the same thing about the leaks and stuff after about a year of wear on them.
Less reliable? is that why almost 80% of the cars that come FI come in the turbo form? Turbo do less havoc on your engine. Go with a supercharger and when that belt starts slipping and you keep loosing your power dont come crying. Also yes a twinscrew willstart to make boost at 2.2, a turbo makes boost at 2.3-4k and is @ full boost at 2.7k. A supercharger reaches full boost at max RPM aka redline.

Andrew
androdz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-01-2007, 08:43 PM   #10
06SaLeEn
I ♥ Acer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,136
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

+1. Actually you have more hp longer with a Turbo than a Cent S/C
06SaLeEn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2007, 07:17 AM   #11
modpower
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 42
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

This is how i feel about the two. With the turbo, you get a better torque curve, andwith better power,but with less reliability(i don't own a turbo car now, but i've owned 2 in the past few years and personaly i don't think they have gotten much more reliable if any). Everyone also knows any fi car comes from the factorywith safe boost levels, thats why they both are pretty reliable. Asfar as runningfi onfactory internalsit isreally a toss up cause either way once the boost is high enough the motor is a time bomb.Myself i prefer to hear the engine soi wouldn't choose either of them. Honestly as far as power adders go, you can call me dumb, or just old school but i'll test my luck with the NX plate kit. I think a car sounds its very best on the gas.
__________________
367rwhp 370rwtq N/A
modpower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2007, 09:09 AM   #12
06SaLeEn
I ♥ Acer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,136
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

I think the turbo when set at the recommened boost level that comes with the kit your fine, its when you start turning it up that you have issues with a turbo.

06SaLeEn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-02-2007, 06:12 PM   #13
androdz
I ♥ Acer
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,090
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: modpower

This is how i feel about the two. With the turbo, you get a better torque curve, andwith better power,but with less reliability(i don't own a turbo car now, but i've owned 2 in the past few years and personaly i don't think they have gotten much more reliable if any). Everyone also knows any fi car comes from the factorywith safe boost levels, thats why they both are pretty reliable. Asfar as runningfi onfactory internalsit isreally a toss up cause either way once the boost is high enough the motor is a time bomb.Myself i prefer to hear the engine soi wouldn't choose either of them. Honestly as far as power adders go, you can call me dumb, or just old school but i'll test my luck with the NX plate kit. I think a car sounds its very best on the gas.
With any power adder at high boost levels it is gonna be less reliable. Superchargers are less reliable because they put more stress on the engine than a turbo does, not to mention you have to keep the belts in good condition or they will start slipping. Any power adder will give you trouble once u start pumping up the boost if you haven't reinforced your drivetrain.

Andrew
androdz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 04:46 AM   #14
carockwell
1st Gear Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 50
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

A supercharger puts more stress on the engine than a turbo? As boost levels get higher the supercharger starts requiring more power to drive, thereby putting more stress on the engine. Putting a turbo on an engine will increase internal temperatures more than a supercharger. Where those two problems intersect is probably in the 10-12 PSI range.
carockwell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 05:07 AM   #15
Arwing
5th Gear Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 2,173
Send a message via ICQ to Arwing Send a message via AIM to Arwing Send a message via Yahoo to Arwing
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

Quote:
First off, this is a repost of an earlier one of mine, but I hate retyping it, and it does provide info for the uninformed.

My vote is for a twin-screw Positive Displacement Blower. Both the Saleen, and KB are twin screw designs. The adiabatic efficiency of a twin-screw far surpasses the Roots or the Centri style. This is the overall effeciency of the blower. Basically it's ability to make hp with less boost/less parasitic load. The only other power adder that comes close is a turbo setup.

As for the Roots style, it is also a PD blower, but an older design. A roots is a "looser" fit than a Twin-Screw blower so it has less drag under cruise, but has more "blowby" during high boost/loads, so it's less efficient under load. Anyway here are some comparisons for you:

1. Twin Screw pros:
a. Mild mannered, easy to drive fast, very predictable, linear power curve
b. Quieter in non-boost situations
c. Huge low end torque (400 ft-lbs at 2800RPM) no need for lower gears and lower MPG
d. More usable power on the street due to torque and linear power curve. On 90% of my "Street Races" the other person gives up in the first 100 ft because I "Frog hop" them sooooo Bad. I usually start at 2000 RPM in second gear and the race is over by 5500 in second!!! I never have to go over 75 MPH!!
e. Easy to install and maintain. ONE belt and oil change every 50K miles.

2. Twin Screw Cons:
a. Expensive 4-6K for basic setup
b. heavy. Adds 50-60 lbs to front end of car.
c. Harder on driveline components. Huge low end torque is a bit more stressful on stock components.
d. Hotter. Engine will suffer a bit from "heat Soak" due to extra metal casing from S/C
e. Less MPG. Expect 1-2mpg less overall.
f. Limited High HP potential. (There the law of diminishing returns)
g. "Seem" slower because of very smooth, linear power delivery.

Centrifugal S/C Pros
a. lighter (smaller components)
b. cooler. (also do to smaller components) Less heat sink
c. Less expensive ( about 3.5 -5.5K for good kit)
e. Higher HP potential. (Centi S/C is basically a belt driven Turbo)
f. Get a "Rush" when the power comes on

Centrifugal S/C Cons
a. very troublesome to install. (Many pieces, hoses clamps, fittings, brackets, etc) Look at some of the pics of a Twins screw kit and then look at a Centi kit.
b. higher maintance costs, and time. Lots of fitting, clamps, brackets, etc to get loose.
c. Lack low end torque. Have to "spool up" to get power.
d. Less driveable, more unpredictable power delivery. Harder to control especially in traction limited invironments. A twin screw with good tires will have better traction even though there is more torque because the power delivery is even and controlled, not "on -off" like a centi, or a turbo.
e. Noisy. (All around the loudest of all three discussed here)

Turbo Pros:

a. Cooler (turbo is not doing much when not in boost
b. better MPG (no parasitic draw when not in use)
c. Very high HP potential (U can really turn up the boost on these!)
d. Quiet, even in boost they are very quite
e. Driveability is good. They do have some of the on-off like a Centi S/C but can be controlled easier with boost controllers.
f. Not as hard on engine, driveline components.


Turbo Cons:
a. heavy. Usually as much as twin screw because of all the plumbing/piping involved
b. very troublesome/time consuming to install
c. Also more maintenance hungry. (pipes fittings, hoses etc)
d. No torque down low. (have to spool up).
e. Expensive. Good turbo kits are 6-8K
f. harder to tune

So there you have it. Basically it really boils down to what you want to use the car for. If you want a fire breating 1/4 mile beast, get a Centi S/C, you'll get the most bang for the buck, but loose streetability, and will work on it much more. If you want quiet, super High HP, best MPG, then get a turbo. If you want a "street killa" that will kick most people in the ditch and still provide good daily "Stock like" driveability, and be the most maitenance friendly, get a twinscrew!! I've owned turbo cars before, and I'll tell you, the twin screw is the best fit for all around daily street use with the occasional 1/4 mile jaunt. I wouldn't have anything else.
__________________
[size=1]
C&L CAI SCT X-CAL 2 - Brenspeed 91 Tune
SLP Loudmouths

Arwing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 12:32 PM   #16
androdz
I ♥ Acer
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location:
Posts: 2,090
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

Quote:
ORIGINAL: carockwell

A supercharger puts more stress on the engine than a turbo? As boost levels get higher the supercharger starts requiring more power to drive, thereby putting more stress on the engine. Putting a turbo on an engine will increase internal temperatures more than a supercharger. Where those two problems intersect is probably in the 10-12 PSI range.
Erm that is why you get a bigger intercooler. Also arwing the lag depends on which turbo you are running. Remember the saleen maxes out at relatively low psi levels. I can get you some dynosheets for turbod' s197s that are doing full boost at 2.7k rpm, when do you reach full boost with a s/c? pherhaps it is @ 6.2k rpm???

Andrew
androdz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2007, 12:36 PM   #17
06SaLeEn
I ♥ Acer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,136
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

+1 I have seen them hit as low as 2400 rpm ish.... If you are at full boost at 2400 rpms lets say 400rwhp all the way to 6200 rpm, who is faster the S/C who hits full boost at 6200 rpm or the Turbo who has full boost from 2400-6200 rpm? Turbo! Thats why I went with it . When done right I think you cant go wrong, but I do love allot of the S/C set up's.Just not as much as the turbo!
06SaLeEn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2007, 02:54 AM   #18
jrm1900
2nd Gear Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 445
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

My two cents here, if you want to go all out racing go with the turbo, for the street I prefer the SC, they have a flatter torque curve and instant power as low as 2500 rpm or even less, turbo makes huge power at higher rpm you are not likely to use on the streets all the time, most street races are over before hitting 3rd.
You'll probably have more HP potential with the turbo but SC's are good for 800 or so, if you intend to go beyond that, your beastit is not going to be verystreeable anyway.
As pointed out before both systems have pros and cons it is your decision.
__________________
2007 SIlver GT
Whipple HO SC 12 psi
Stainless Works LT Headers, offroad
Steeda Shocks and Struts
Steeda Anti Sway bars and brackets
Steeda LCA
Power House Aluminum Drive Shaft & Torque limiter
MGW Shifter
Slotted brakes 13" F&R
jrm1900 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2007, 08:58 AM   #19
06SaLeEn
I ♥ Acer
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 1,136
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

To speak for myself, I have higher hp than a s/c at 3000 rpm all the way to 6+rpm. It starts to build at 2k to 3 where its at 9psi. not to argue, but you should drive a new turbo stang and if properly tuned and installed you will see why the turbo has great Hp at low rpm to high rpm. Tq is also insane. I put over 400 ft of tq at just 5100 rpm,(where we shut it down on the dyno) on a mustang dyno.
06SaLeEn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2007, 09:06 AM   #20
carmanwelder
2nd Gear Member
 
carmanwelder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Posts: 196
Default RE: Turbo or Supercharger?

A KB big bore will lay down alot more at 5100 rpm (9psi)than 392 rwhp.
__________________
2005 Mustang GT
2.6L KB Intercooled 15 psi
KB Heavy duty tensioner
MAC Axlebacks
RK Hood
Pro 5.0 Short Throw Shifter
carmanwelder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2007, 09:06 AM
MustangForums
Ford Mustang




Paid Advertisement

 
 
 
Reply

Tags
2003, acceleration, august, battle, boost, centi, hot, instant, magazine, mustang, rod, sluggish, supercharger, turbo, turbocharger, vortech

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Turbo or Supercharger? jv101 Pipes, Boost & Juice 34 05-01-2008 10:53 PM
2003 mustang Turbo or Supercharger???? mustang25 V6 (1994-2004) Mustangs 15 10-11-2007 08:51 PM

Advertising

Featured Sponsors
Vendor Directory
New Sponsors
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:57 AM.

© Internet Brands, Inc.


This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. Ford® is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company
Emails Backup