jwgroovin

First, the relevant mods: C&L CAI, custom SCT xcal tune, BBK shorties, Bassani catted x-pipe, Mac axlebacks, FRPP 4.10 gears, Hurst shifter, Comp Stage 3 cams (with Comp springs and steel retainers), Steeda springs.

Without the cams, the car was dyno tuned to 301.76 hp, 317.62 torque
With the cams, the car was dyno tuned to 323.52 hp, 309.71 torque

Win some and lose some.

Before the cams, I hit max hp at 5000 RPM, now it's at 6000RPM.

The car idles at 8-900rpm, there is NO lope that I can hear. The tuner tried to get the idle rpm lower, but had problems with cold start and coming to a stop with the clutch depressed.

Were the cams worth it? The car definately feels stronger up top, that's for sure. But even so, I can't help feel 20hp for nearly 2 large just isn't worth it. I'm not sure it would be worth it if I did it myself either, although I would have liked the experience.

To regain some low end torque I have few options but I couldget ported heads. But that's $1500 minimum, I believe, plus fluids, parts, labor, etc. I can't imagine even bothering at this point.

If I could go back in time, I would get everything I have now minus the cams. With the money saved, I'd put in two drive shaft loops, add a Zex kit, get a custom tune for the nitrous, and have a 375HP demon at the track and run twelves any day I wanted to. When the clutch went, I'd add a spec 2 and aluminum flywheel, and probably just do a Denny's driveshaft at the same time. In fact, that's EXACTLY what I'm going to do--I didn't deviate too much with this plan, but I could have paid for all of that with the money that went into the cams.

Bottom line, listen to your tuner, listen to your experts. Ford did afantastic job with the system, and there is unfortunately at this time diminishing returns after the cold air kit/tune and 4.10 gears go in. Exhaust, udp, throttle bodies and delete plates do add some, but unless you're doing all your own labor, the bang for the buckdoesn't seem to bethere (although it does add up another 25hp, perhaps). I think nitrous a better option if S/C isn't in your immediate future.

If you want to be inthefast 10% or so, if you want a low ET at the track, go with a supercharger and a good tune. Hands down, the best bang for the buck.

I'll take a picture of the before/after graph if my camera can get a contrasty enough photo, and if not, I'll ask for a JPEG off the tuner's laptop. I can't make the track this week as all 3 local tracks have special programs running instead of test and tune, so that will have to wait until the weekend after next.

Comments welcome--even the "I told you so", but I'm bummed folks...

Xposted at TMS.

John

fordfanboy

I'm not going to say 'I told ya so' John and I feel for ya. You just got caught in the mag and vendor BS like many others.

The only point I want to make is your max HP could definitely be upped in the tune also and you don't have to rely or credit it to the cams. 6000 may or may not be helped by the cams, but through tuning you should be able to see max hp in the 5500-5800 range if you want it to.

zkiller

I made a statement in another thread a few days ago that cams are not worth the money. Then people all start chiming in how they got 40 HP etc, and I dont know jack.
I was changing cams in Fords, big block Chevys and Pontiacs religously in the seventies.
There were cam profiles for high RPM, there were cam profiles for low-end power. I used to use Isky cams and when you changed cams there was a worthwhile gain. You matched cams with your gear ratio, planned compression and the amount of air-fuel you were going to be pushing through your carb(s).
I know what a cam can do. I know the aftermarket cams for the 4.6 don't buy you anything.
The cams are not worth it. In your case, you lost torque and gained very little horspower.
They also affect drivability, and these cams have not been out long enough to prove themselves.
I am sorry it cost you 2000 dollars to realize that. There is nothing in the stock 4.6 cam profile that need improvement, in my opinion. That is 2K that could have went towards a blower the way I see it.
You could not even put a really high-lift cam in these motors without changing to pistons with valve reliefs.
I think it is crazy that some of these young guys buy a set of cams because they like the way it sounds at idle. That is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

fordfanboy

+1 but the problems with a big lift aren't easily solved by swapping to a better piston either. The other big issue that comes into play is the clearance. In having to maintain a .003-.0035 clearance, you are very limited to the lift on these motors. That's the point I also brought up in the other threads and why lots of guys get caught up cams is they are comparing them to pushrods and it's apples and oranges. On this particular modular motor, it takes a lot more to come up with a truly 'custom' grind then simply changing the lift in the grind. This is why all of the available cams out now are just slight variances in the stock grind and you are paying a lot of money for nothing but some sound.

To do something really 'custom' on these motors, it's going to curtail a lot more than replacing the camshafts. To utilize something truly 'custom' and something that actually delivers, it is going to take a complete motor set-up.

jwgroovin

dyno results, for those interested:

[IMG]local://upfiles/15847/400A22587D2E4C739E5ADEC461D3C078.jpg[/IMG]

Chevy Convert

Weren't the good ole days great?

Sorryit cost 2K to postthose results but thanks for posting. I can't believe the loss in torque - that's a dissappointment.

I have a set of deletes sitting in the garage (for three months)and am torn on whether to install them or not. They seem like a one dimensional mod where the only benefit is WOT....

Chevy Convert

...oops

Norse1974

Ive read articles where the stock cams in the S197s were used for 900HP motors with no problems!Sorry you lost 2 large for barely any gain.

2007GT/CS

Thanks very much for sharing your experience. I'm still early in my modding but am at that same cross road: Done the early, no-brainer things: CAI/Tune and gears. Now what's next? Nibble with the UDPs, Deletes, Driveshaft, etc.? Put on the N2O? Wait and just go straight to the FI?

Decisions, decisions.....

I just want to say again, I really appreciate your plain talk on what worked and didn't work.

fordfanboy

Justin burcham runs the stock cams in his procharger/nitrous whiffing machine and makes over 1000 rwhp. He just started dipping into the 8's recently.