De-Tuned ??!!
10-06-2007, 06:43 PM
#12
RE: De-Tuned ??!!
I highly dont the CPU would pull timing in the tune just because you are driving it normal instead of aggressive...it might but either way he is saying its pulling timing because something is wrong, yes in that case I would want to know the cause. There are many ways that the CPU can tone the tune down.
10-08-2007, 01:23 PM
#13
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: De-Tuned ??!!
It does happen. I've experienced it, and so have other members of the various S197 forums.Also, some of the well known tuners have stated that it happens.
I know where he was coming from, and Itold him thatthe reasonwhy my ECUis changing(pulling)timing, as well as other values in its memory,is becauseI drive my car conservatively at times. In other words, no other problems exist that are causing my ECU to pull timing.
I also know that other factors can cause the ECU to pull timing, like bad gas, high ambient temperatures, above normal compression ratio from carbon build up, "hot" spark plugs, etc. However, those are not the causes in my case, because my car runs like a bat out of H..L rightafter I reflash the tune, and then if I take it on a tripit feels soft afterwards. And reflashing cures the problem, every time.
I know where he was coming from, and Itold him thatthe reasonwhy my ECUis changing(pulling)timing, as well as other values in its memory,is becauseI drive my car conservatively at times. In other words, no other problems exist that are causing my ECU to pull timing.
I also know that other factors can cause the ECU to pull timing, like bad gas, high ambient temperatures, above normal compression ratio from carbon build up, "hot" spark plugs, etc. However, those are not the causes in my case, because my car runs like a bat out of H..L rightafter I reflash the tune, and then if I take it on a tripit feels soft afterwards. And reflashing cures the problem, every time.
10-08-2007, 02:03 PM
#15
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: De-Tuned ??!!
ORIGINAL: underdog
I have read that Doug @bchips has disabled the adaptive part of the program so it does not change it's tune anymore.
I have read that Doug @bchips has disabled the adaptive part of the program so it does not change it's tune anymore.
10-08-2007, 02:46 PM
#18
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, Tx.
Posts: 54
RE: De-Tuned ??!!
Here is something I found from Doug on another site.[/align][/align]Hey guys,
First off I want to say thanks to John (GTjohn) as he has been excellent to work with. For the last two years it seems like everytime I need someone to try something for an automatic he's there and willing and always provides me with plenty of information about the tune.
The adaptive learning feature of the transmission is an entirely different feature then that of the engines and has no impact towards it. The adaptive learning that is always thrown out has been aimed towards the engine until now, about 2 weeks ago. I now have the ability to disable this feature in the PCM and this inturn will prevent the transmission from adjusting the shift scheduling and pressures from normal day to day driving.
Now for the rest of my automatic tune...
The OD shift point, funny this should come up on here. I started sending out my autoloc tune last year about this time. When I did I had the shift point for OD set at 60mph as everyone had requested. I started doing this to every tune file I made. I was bombarded with retunes as most of my customers truly didn't like this because alot of them drove in inner cities or places that barely got about 45mph and they didn't like the way the it stayed in 4th gear. So I had to go in and remap the 4-5 shift for OD to bring it back to a point higher then stock but nowhere near 60 or even 50 mph. Now I can still make the OD shift point higher then 60mph, I have that file, but I only do it on a case by case basis.
The converter lock up scheduling. On the factory tune, SCT, and Diablosport base file the torque converter parameters are all left stock. Yes, on the SCT and Diablo tunes the shifting is adjusted a bit but nothing is done to the torque converter files. In these files the torque converter is never called upon to lock up in 2nd or 3rd gear and its not until 40mph in 4th that is will. You can be in 4th gear at 22mph and not have the converter lock until you reach 40pmh.
With my tune the converter is locked starting in 2nd gear at around 1/4 - 1/2 throttle and from there fully except on shifts. I've had to remap the transmission shifting as well to go along with the new converter lockup so you wont get the double shift feeling, like the 6th gear talk from before. As soon as the car shifts the converter locks up or locks back up to prevent any bucking or harsh shifts.
The benefits of this are one, better fuel mileage. An open converter is nothing more then a slipping clutch and this eats up power because its just spinning. With the converter locked you get a more solid coupling to the
engine helping to transmit more power to the wheels. Next, longer transmission life due to lower fluid temps, with less converter slippage the heat build up is less.
Lower track times at the drag strip, with the converter being locked in 2nd and 3rd gear you're getting more power to the ground and therefore lowering times and improving MPH. I've consistantly had reports of drops of .2-.3 tenths on n/a engines and even more using nitrous over MY old performance tunes and other SCT and Diablosport tune files.
Finally easier and more beleivable numbers at the dyno. With the stock tune and base performance files the Torque converter will lock and unlock at 4800 rpm's causing a spike in the Hp and Tq curve on the dyno. The old way to remeady this was to load a special dynoloc file that puts the car in 4th gear by 20mph and locks the converter and wont allow it to goto OD at all. With my file you can goto the dyno and run the car, starting at 3000 rpm's because it will downshift if you aren't this high in the RPM's, and you will not get the annoying spike. I've proven this on 10 cars in a row in St. Louis at the dynoday we had.
Basically if you have any issue with your car ask me about it. If its something I can adjust or work on for you then I'll be happy to help. for example, on manual cars they hold RPM's when you depress the clutch when shifting or slowing down. I had alot of customers asking about this so I worked with a few and finally got it to drop when you hit the pedal and now I incorporate this in to every manual tune I make. This is what sets true custom tuning dealers apart, we work with the customers and listen to way they say and we further our tunes with this information.
Thanks, Doug[/align]__________________
www.BamaChips.com
205-302-0231
Owner/Tuner
Ford and GM Custom Tuning
Mobile DynoJet 224x
The official tuner of Project Source Horse
The only thing we do is Custom tuning, no matter if its SCT or Diablo we can do it and do it well.
#1 rated custom Automatic tunes developed using our own Auto GT, a long strech of road and our dyno, not to mention our manual tunes that actually allow the throttle to close when you let off.
One of the Top 10 Dealers in SCT Sales in 2005 and 2006! Proof positive that true customer service is better then advertising. I want to thank everyone of my customers for truly making my dreams come true! Two years ago I wouldn't have dreamed of being this big and I know I wouldn't be where I am today without YOU!
Thank You!! Doug [/align]
First off I want to say thanks to John (GTjohn) as he has been excellent to work with. For the last two years it seems like everytime I need someone to try something for an automatic he's there and willing and always provides me with plenty of information about the tune.
The adaptive learning feature of the transmission is an entirely different feature then that of the engines and has no impact towards it. The adaptive learning that is always thrown out has been aimed towards the engine until now, about 2 weeks ago. I now have the ability to disable this feature in the PCM and this inturn will prevent the transmission from adjusting the shift scheduling and pressures from normal day to day driving.
Now for the rest of my automatic tune...
The OD shift point, funny this should come up on here. I started sending out my autoloc tune last year about this time. When I did I had the shift point for OD set at 60mph as everyone had requested. I started doing this to every tune file I made. I was bombarded with retunes as most of my customers truly didn't like this because alot of them drove in inner cities or places that barely got about 45mph and they didn't like the way the it stayed in 4th gear. So I had to go in and remap the 4-5 shift for OD to bring it back to a point higher then stock but nowhere near 60 or even 50 mph. Now I can still make the OD shift point higher then 60mph, I have that file, but I only do it on a case by case basis.
The converter lock up scheduling. On the factory tune, SCT, and Diablosport base file the torque converter parameters are all left stock. Yes, on the SCT and Diablo tunes the shifting is adjusted a bit but nothing is done to the torque converter files. In these files the torque converter is never called upon to lock up in 2nd or 3rd gear and its not until 40mph in 4th that is will. You can be in 4th gear at 22mph and not have the converter lock until you reach 40pmh.
With my tune the converter is locked starting in 2nd gear at around 1/4 - 1/2 throttle and from there fully except on shifts. I've had to remap the transmission shifting as well to go along with the new converter lockup so you wont get the double shift feeling, like the 6th gear talk from before. As soon as the car shifts the converter locks up or locks back up to prevent any bucking or harsh shifts.
The benefits of this are one, better fuel mileage. An open converter is nothing more then a slipping clutch and this eats up power because its just spinning. With the converter locked you get a more solid coupling to the
engine helping to transmit more power to the wheels. Next, longer transmission life due to lower fluid temps, with less converter slippage the heat build up is less.
Lower track times at the drag strip, with the converter being locked in 2nd and 3rd gear you're getting more power to the ground and therefore lowering times and improving MPH. I've consistantly had reports of drops of .2-.3 tenths on n/a engines and even more using nitrous over MY old performance tunes and other SCT and Diablosport tune files.
Finally easier and more beleivable numbers at the dyno. With the stock tune and base performance files the Torque converter will lock and unlock at 4800 rpm's causing a spike in the Hp and Tq curve on the dyno. The old way to remeady this was to load a special dynoloc file that puts the car in 4th gear by 20mph and locks the converter and wont allow it to goto OD at all. With my file you can goto the dyno and run the car, starting at 3000 rpm's because it will downshift if you aren't this high in the RPM's, and you will not get the annoying spike. I've proven this on 10 cars in a row in St. Louis at the dynoday we had.
Basically if you have any issue with your car ask me about it. If its something I can adjust or work on for you then I'll be happy to help. for example, on manual cars they hold RPM's when you depress the clutch when shifting or slowing down. I had alot of customers asking about this so I worked with a few and finally got it to drop when you hit the pedal and now I incorporate this in to every manual tune I make. This is what sets true custom tuning dealers apart, we work with the customers and listen to way they say and we further our tunes with this information.
Thanks, Doug[/align]__________________
www.BamaChips.com
205-302-0231
Owner/Tuner
Ford and GM Custom Tuning
Mobile DynoJet 224x
The official tuner of Project Source Horse
The only thing we do is Custom tuning, no matter if its SCT or Diablo we can do it and do it well.
#1 rated custom Automatic tunes developed using our own Auto GT, a long strech of road and our dyno, not to mention our manual tunes that actually allow the throttle to close when you let off.
One of the Top 10 Dealers in SCT Sales in 2005 and 2006! Proof positive that true customer service is better then advertising. I want to thank everyone of my customers for truly making my dreams come true! Two years ago I wouldn't have dreamed of being this big and I know I wouldn't be where I am today without YOU!
Thank You!! Doug [/align]
10-08-2007, 05:23 PM
#20
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
RE: De-Tuned ??!!
Nice find underdog, and thanks for the heads up.I also stand corrected. That updates Doug's previous standregarding hisbeing unable to disable the adaptive learning feature.Imissed that thread because I remember having had no interest in it since it's titled for auto trannies, and I have a manual.
Needless to say, I sent Doug an emailregarding setting things up to update my tune.
Needless to say, I sent Doug an emailregarding setting things up to update my tune.
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