the adaptive learning
06-17-2008, 09:26 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location:
Posts: 16
the adaptive learning
I have been reading in a few of the post lately about this adaptive learning that our new stangs have. I'm thinking this might be some of my problem and I have a few questions. First my nitrous is set to spray at WOT, here lately it's starting at about half throttle to two thirds. would reseting the computer help? Also along with that I have had my car dyno tuned with a performance tune, I imigine that reseting the computer will take it back to stock then I can just plug in my tuner and reinstall it?? Does this sound about right or have others had the same thing happen with their Zex system. Thanks in advance for any help.
06-18-2008, 07:22 AM
#3
6th Gear Member
RE: the adaptive learning
The adaptive learning is the PCM's response to particular driving habits, allowing it to make changes to specific operating parameters. These changes can often have a negative impact on performance.
As far as I understand, resetting the PCM by lifting the battery terminal for some amount of time (I've heard as long as 1 hour) will NOT require you to reinstall your tune. It simply resets certain parameters that the PCM uses based on your driving habits but maintains all the basic settings of the last installed tune. It has been known to cure a number of problems such as throttle lag, unsteady idle, hesitation and other things but it's not the cure-all.
Hopefully others that have done this will chime in. There are many out there that routinely do this from what I've read.
As far as I understand, resetting the PCM by lifting the battery terminal for some amount of time (I've heard as long as 1 hour) will NOT require you to reinstall your tune. It simply resets certain parameters that the PCM uses based on your driving habits but maintains all the basic settings of the last installed tune. It has been known to cure a number of problems such as throttle lag, unsteady idle, hesitation and other things but it's not the cure-all.
Hopefully others that have done this will chime in. There are many out there that routinely do this from what I've read.
06-18-2008, 12:19 PM
#4
2nd Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Illinois
Posts: 415
RE: the adaptive learning
Switch to a gas pedal switch and never have a problem again. My switch mounts just below the gas pedal so it only activates when wide open throttle. I went old school nitrous hook up instead of electronic. Just a suggestion.
06-18-2008, 01:50 PM
#5
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Pole
Posts: 6,716
RE: the adaptive learning
I normally shift when merging and passing on the freeway as well as launching it in 1 then
upshifting to D before redline- seems like the car shifts more aggressively when driving normally
now and holds the gear when I want it to,adaptive learning maybe? it has intake/tune and it's way more responsive now then when I first installed the kit...
upshifting to D before redline- seems like the car shifts more aggressively when driving normally
now and holds the gear when I want it to,adaptive learning maybe? it has intake/tune and it's way more responsive now then when I first installed the kit...
05-14-2009, 11:33 AM
#7
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 53
I've asked Doug and he says he does but I still have gotten a sluggish feel to my car after running the 93 Race Tune for a while. I just lifted the negative terminal for 20 mins and I can tell a difference. I don't know if he really does or not.
05-14-2009, 12:26 PM
#8
6th Gear Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Montaner
Posts: 6,193
Do a search on this. Doug can't completely shut it off. I think he himself says as much in a post here. It's an old thread, I dug it up a few weeks ago. Just search for "adaptive learning" and see what you find.
05-14-2009, 02:16 PM
#9
4th Gear Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,470
These may be Doug's posts that you're referring to:
(1)
"The ECU's adaptive learning feature does NOT affect the S197's performance during "Open Loop" operation(WOT, cold engine) if it has a CUSTOM tune. This is because the tuner turns off the ECU's ability to apply learned A/F corrections to the "Open Loop" tables. However, the stock tune has the ability to do this. Still, this isn't the adaptive feature you are looking for.
There are some values in the stock tune's Torque Management feature for automatics that can cause it to learn how to shift softly, which should be disabled in EVERY tune made. However, both this and adaptive learning are parameters that cannot be selected from either Diablo's or SCT's user options. They both have to be done in the custom tuning(Read: My) software.
Adaptive learning can be turned off, but this will limit the amount of learning the car can do for different situations. This can be a bad thing if you drive in different altitudes and different climates. The ECU must have some sort of learning ability to be able to adjust for different conditions. But this still shouldn't make a huge power difference while in the 'Closed Loop'(learning) mode, when the ECU is trying to keep the engine as close to a 14.64 A/F ratio as possible in order to maximize efficiency(mpg) and minimize emissions. This is where fuel trims come into play, since they tell the tale of how much correction the ECU is making to keep the engine as close to 14.64 as it can by using the readings from the front 02 sensors. Normally +/- 5% is well within Ford's factory specs. But if the A/F ratio gets outside that range, and the ECU cannot make any further adjustments to it, then the the system will run either lean or rich, and give either a P015X or P017X code.
So, in effect, there isn't a parameter that will completely turn off your ECU's learning ability, which you don't want to do anyway. I think that the loss of performance is caused by the new "Drive By Wire" system, which makes adjustments to the total amount of torque that the engine is allowed to make, since this is how the DBW system works anyway, i.e., it
commands a specific amount of torque as determined by the pedal position. And when the amount of torque is greater or less than what it should be, then the ECU goes into the fail safe mode. And the process by which tuners adjust these settings within the factory parameters determines how the engine gains and maintains maximum driveability. Turning the 'Torque Management' off is a good start, but having a tuner that knows what's going on is the best way to get the most from the car."
(2)
"The ECU's adaptive learning feature corrects fuel trims, and this in turn helps to keep mileage in check. When the gas pedal is in a position that is sufficient to make reasonable power, then you should be in 'Open Loop', and the fuel trims, or adaptive learning, is off completely anyway.
Now, this is my THEORY on what you guys are feeling. It's the PCM learning the throttle tables and adjustments, and on the auto's it's learning transmission pressures and slip times. This has nothing to do with what is referred to as adaptive learning.
The way that I combat that is to completely remap the DBW tables, and not only one but a few different ones. This in turn gives the ECU different tables to adapt/learn to and from, which gives the throttle a crisper response than it has with the stock tune. There are SCT dealers that don't have access to these tables, and the changes that they make to the
basefiles are not the same as mine. DiabloSport also makes nearly the same changes as those SCT dealers.
WRT the automatic features, I basically doing the same thing by adjusting different tables, times, and rates that give the PCM different base files to adapt/learn to and from, and hopefully not reduce. There are also a few switch positions that need to be changed, but without going into great detail I'll leave it at that.
Basically, to help get around this you should start with a custom tune from a custom tuning dealer with a good rep who will provide you with support after the sale should you need it. And not just some warehouse dealer who pushes them out the door with free overnight shipping, or a new shop that wants to save you $20 as compared to a reputable dealer."
(1)
"The ECU's adaptive learning feature does NOT affect the S197's performance during "Open Loop" operation(WOT, cold engine) if it has a CUSTOM tune. This is because the tuner turns off the ECU's ability to apply learned A/F corrections to the "Open Loop" tables. However, the stock tune has the ability to do this. Still, this isn't the adaptive feature you are looking for.
There are some values in the stock tune's Torque Management feature for automatics that can cause it to learn how to shift softly, which should be disabled in EVERY tune made. However, both this and adaptive learning are parameters that cannot be selected from either Diablo's or SCT's user options. They both have to be done in the custom tuning(Read: My) software.
Adaptive learning can be turned off, but this will limit the amount of learning the car can do for different situations. This can be a bad thing if you drive in different altitudes and different climates. The ECU must have some sort of learning ability to be able to adjust for different conditions. But this still shouldn't make a huge power difference while in the 'Closed Loop'(learning) mode, when the ECU is trying to keep the engine as close to a 14.64 A/F ratio as possible in order to maximize efficiency(mpg) and minimize emissions. This is where fuel trims come into play, since they tell the tale of how much correction the ECU is making to keep the engine as close to 14.64 as it can by using the readings from the front 02 sensors. Normally +/- 5% is well within Ford's factory specs. But if the A/F ratio gets outside that range, and the ECU cannot make any further adjustments to it, then the the system will run either lean or rich, and give either a P015X or P017X code.
So, in effect, there isn't a parameter that will completely turn off your ECU's learning ability, which you don't want to do anyway. I think that the loss of performance is caused by the new "Drive By Wire" system, which makes adjustments to the total amount of torque that the engine is allowed to make, since this is how the DBW system works anyway, i.e., it
commands a specific amount of torque as determined by the pedal position. And when the amount of torque is greater or less than what it should be, then the ECU goes into the fail safe mode. And the process by which tuners adjust these settings within the factory parameters determines how the engine gains and maintains maximum driveability. Turning the 'Torque Management' off is a good start, but having a tuner that knows what's going on is the best way to get the most from the car."
(2)
"The ECU's adaptive learning feature corrects fuel trims, and this in turn helps to keep mileage in check. When the gas pedal is in a position that is sufficient to make reasonable power, then you should be in 'Open Loop', and the fuel trims, or adaptive learning, is off completely anyway.
Now, this is my THEORY on what you guys are feeling. It's the PCM learning the throttle tables and adjustments, and on the auto's it's learning transmission pressures and slip times. This has nothing to do with what is referred to as adaptive learning.
The way that I combat that is to completely remap the DBW tables, and not only one but a few different ones. This in turn gives the ECU different tables to adapt/learn to and from, which gives the throttle a crisper response than it has with the stock tune. There are SCT dealers that don't have access to these tables, and the changes that they make to the
basefiles are not the same as mine. DiabloSport also makes nearly the same changes as those SCT dealers.
WRT the automatic features, I basically doing the same thing by adjusting different tables, times, and rates that give the PCM different base files to adapt/learn to and from, and hopefully not reduce. There are also a few switch positions that need to be changed, but without going into great detail I'll leave it at that.
Basically, to help get around this you should start with a custom tune from a custom tuning dealer with a good rep who will provide you with support after the sale should you need it. And not just some warehouse dealer who pushes them out the door with free overnight shipping, or a new shop that wants to save you $20 as compared to a reputable dealer."