MODS for my new 2008 gt
02-09-2012, 10:08 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: washington
Posts: 15
MODS for my new 2008 gt
HELLO
i just bought me new mustang and i love it, i love going fast and i love braggin about my car.
i know i probaly dont need 400+ hp but i want to have it so i can brag about it and kick pretty much everyones butt
that being said i dont know a lot about cars and i know nothing about mods. i have done some reading and im thinking about doing cool intate, cam shafts and getting a chip. i dont know how much all of that would cost or if i should even start there
im trying to stay away from super charging it im on the fence about it if i can spend under 3k on parts making it close to 400hp ill be ok with that.
also i read some where about my engine being only to take around 450 hp is that just from the engine or can i have more hp then that
also i read something about getting better tires, how much would good tires cost? and are they worth it.
so what should i do first how much should i expect to pay for the parts and have them installed, should i order them online or go to a mustang shop and be like make my car faster
i just bought me new mustang and i love it, i love going fast and i love braggin about my car.
i know i probaly dont need 400+ hp but i want to have it so i can brag about it and kick pretty much everyones butt
that being said i dont know a lot about cars and i know nothing about mods. i have done some reading and im thinking about doing cool intate, cam shafts and getting a chip. i dont know how much all of that would cost or if i should even start there
im trying to stay away from super charging it im on the fence about it if i can spend under 3k on parts making it close to 400hp ill be ok with that.
also i read some where about my engine being only to take around 450 hp is that just from the engine or can i have more hp then that
also i read something about getting better tires, how much would good tires cost? and are they worth it.
so what should i do first how much should i expect to pay for the parts and have them installed, should i order them online or go to a mustang shop and be like make my car faster
02-09-2012, 12:31 PM
#2
HELLO
i just bought me new mustang and i love it, i love going fast and i love braggin about my car.
i know i probaly dont need 400+ hp but i want to have it so i can brag about it and kick pretty much everyones butt
that being said i dont know a lot about cars and i know nothing about mods. i have done some reading and im thinking about doing cool intate, cam shafts and getting a chip. i dont know how much all of that would cost or if i should even start there
im trying to stay away from super charging it im on the fence about it if i can spend under 3k on parts making it close to 400hp ill be ok with that.
also i read some where about my engine being only to take around 450 hp is that just from the engine or can i have more hp then that
also i read something about getting better tires, how much would good tires cost? and are they worth it.
so what should i do first how much should i expect to pay for the parts and have them installed, should i order them online or go to a mustang shop and be like make my car faster
i just bought me new mustang and i love it, i love going fast and i love braggin about my car.
i know i probaly dont need 400+ hp but i want to have it so i can brag about it and kick pretty much everyones butt
that being said i dont know a lot about cars and i know nothing about mods. i have done some reading and im thinking about doing cool intate, cam shafts and getting a chip. i dont know how much all of that would cost or if i should even start there
im trying to stay away from super charging it im on the fence about it if i can spend under 3k on parts making it close to 400hp ill be ok with that.
also i read some where about my engine being only to take around 450 hp is that just from the engine or can i have more hp then that
also i read something about getting better tires, how much would good tires cost? and are they worth it.
so what should i do first how much should i expect to pay for the parts and have them installed, should i order them online or go to a mustang shop and be like make my car faster
That said, if you insist on making over 400hp, FRPP has a heads/cams/intake setup the will make that much power. It's a nice combo.
Now, thinking outside the box... if you're wanting to go fast and kick butt (your words), one thing people often overlook is traction. Whether or not your car ever makes over 400rwhp, it is A LOT easier to kick some butt if your car hooks up and goes while the guy you're racing is just sitting there and spinning the tires.
UPR Products control arms and a set of GOOD tires (not necessarily slicks/drag radials) will make a HUGE improvement in traction. Then a full suspension setup and R-compound tires will make even more improvement. So whether or not you prefer drag racing, road racing, or if your car is a strictly a street car, upgraded suspension & tires will always improve its performance.
www.uprproducts.com
02-09-2012, 07:28 PM
#3
5th Gear Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Delaware
Posts: 2,215
Winning straight-line races comes down to two mechanical things; traction and vehicle lbs per horsepower.
The key to piecing together the car is to think of your goal. Do you want 400 horsepower? Do you want a fast car? Do you want a ¼ mile car? Do you want a top speed car? From the sound of it, you want stop light performance, which is actually going to be mostly in the torque department. The older pushrod engines are capable of great amounts of torque in comparison to our over head cam setups but that by no means we can’t put out. The advantage of our overhead cam is that we rev faster and higher than our pushrod Mustang brethren.
You acknowledge you don’t know much about cars so I assume you don’t know what a power band is. This is the way the power is made in your car. Because we do not have electric motors, all of the power is not immediately available and the engine must build it over the rpm range (ie: powerband). Parts which make the car freer flowing, such as exhaust and intake parts, keep the ‘throw you back in your seat’ feeling in the car from hitting dead spots while flooring it.
Your car makes two types of power: horsepower and torque. Horsepower is generally accepted as the number that will get you to higher speeds as well as give you great pull in mid and top rpms & miles per hour. Torque on the other hand is what does the work to get your car moving and is represented greatly by acceleration or your ability to get to a certain lower speed faster. In most motors, especially non-charged, as one builds, the other fades (even if only slightly). Torque for us always peaks first then horsepower. Along the way, you will feel different levels of ‘pull’ from the car as you accelerate. Sometimes it will pull hard and sometimes not depending on rpms. This can be identified by a dynograph. (Quick aside, a dynojet or mustang dyno are machines designed to measure the amount of power/work an engine is doing. These can be attached directly to engines that are not in a car and measure fly wheel horsepower which is what manufacturers list in the specs. More commonly, we use roller dynos, which allow us to drive a cars drive wheels, rear in our case, over the rollers and strap it down to do runs. Dynojets produce higher numbers than do Mustang dynos because mustang dynos apply resistance to simulate real world friction.) These runs record how quickly the car can make those drums spin and produce a chart with two lines, horsepower and torque as a function of rpms.
Below I have linked to a picture of a stock 2006 Mustang GT:
As can be seen in the chart, this car made far short of the advertised 300 horsepower and 330ftlbs of torque (this was an automatic which I will explain later). Additionally, we can see that the light blue line, which is torque, fades substantially after 4,500 rpms. Horsepower continues to climb to 5,500 where it peaks and then begins to decline. Don’t worry, there are things we can do to fix this!
My concern with building my car is not to have a dyno queen that can hit a really high peak number but doesn’t reach it or maintain it well. The flatter these curves are, generally the better. Adding those freer flowing parts remove restrictions and allow you to flatten your curve which in reality means that your non-peak numbers are higher. If you can have a car that maxes at 350lbs of torque at a lower rpm and can keep you around those numbers all the way through the band, it will probably be worth more than a car hitting 375lbs of torque later or one that makes more but can’t maintain a flatter curve.
Here is a 2005 Mustang v6, automatic with a single axelback replacement and stage 2 ported heads:
As you can see not only were numbers raised but they are flatter meaning the car is making more power for a longer period of time.
Parts of these curves can be tuned to produce better results. On our stock cars, a tune can open up another ~15 rwhp just by changing the amount of fuel and air entering our engine. From the factory, no car is tuned perfectly for all out performance. Further, aftermarket cams, which use lobes on a shaft to actuate the valves in our heads (open and close them), are more aggressive which means they give more lift and advance timing which allows more air to get for combustion. They also advance the time which means there is less time between the opening and closing of the intake and exhaust valves. This is why with aftermarket cams like the FRPP Hot Rod cams you can see engine speeds of up to 6,800 rpms while stock we are a tick under 6,000.
Now a word about transmissions. There are two types for us; automatic or manual. Manuals are generally faster for two reasons. First, our T3650 weighs about 150lbs less than the 5R55S. Roughly, every 100lbs of weight can save you a tenth of a second in acceleration. Second, a manual transmission is more efficient at moving what your engine makes through its gears to the driveshaft. Automatics have extra moving parts like torque converters which use more fluid to operate and get hotter faster. This in turn causes the transmission to bleed power. A general rule of thumb is that our manuals lose ~9% while automatics lose ~15% of the power made at the engine. That’s why that automatic GT in the first chart made substantially less power than expected.
So all of this is great, we know that more air goes in to an engine that is freer flowing and the exhaust can get out faster with a freer flowing exhaust. So what actually makes the power? Combustion and compression. At the center of our ‘V’ shaped engines is a crankshaft with rods connected to pistons. These pistons move up and down in our cylinders. This up and down movement causes the crankshaft to turn which is connected to a flywheel and clutch which is the mating point between your engine and transmission. In short, the crankshaft spinning is what makes your driveshaft spin and finally your wheels. In order to make that piston move, the engine introduces oxygen (air) and fuel (through the injectors). The piston in motion, either from a previous motion of another cylinder firing or the starter, moves upward and compresses the mixture, pressurizing it to a point right before it will spontaneously combust (cylinders firing under compression without the introduction of a spark in gasoline engines is called detonation or knock and is bad). In our cars it is 9.8:1 compression. With the piston fully extended upward, the coil on plugs (COPs) fire a spark and ignite the mixture. As it burns, the byproduct is a gas, which rapidly expands, forcing the piston downward. This of course turns the crankshaft. Obviously, doing this in rapid succession gives us continues revolutions of the shaft. The fast we make I spin, the fast we go. While tuning, to crank out a few extra ponies, you can use premium fuel or anything between 91-93 octane. This octane rating allows the mixture to endure greater pressures before detonating, which allows tuners to advance the timing even more to get as much potential energy in to the cylinder before firing. Higher flow fuel injectors will help feed your car the fuel it needs as you start increasing the amount of power in it. Likewise, higher output COPs and sparkplugs ensure that the spark is stronger and lasts longer to ensure as full a burning of the fuel as possible, again producing more power through efficiency.
My goal for my own GT is 400hp. Now there is a difference between 400 flywheel horsepower and 400Rear Wheel Horsepower (RWHP). Because power doesn’t matter unless you can make it at the wheels and put it on the street.
Here is my plan to get there:
WMS High Velocity Intake (with ported and polished throttlebody for an extra pony or two)
Dynotune
Mac long tube headers, high flow cats, prochamber, and boomtube resonators (no mufflers)
39# Ford fuel injectors
Ford Racing Hot Rod cams
GMS Hot-Street Coil Packs
I don’t know where that will put me until I do all of it and get it dyno’ed but I am guessing I will be around 400 flywheel or more.
I have 295 Toyo Proxes 4’s on my car but I want something softer. A lot of guys on here use the Nitto’s and that is what I plan to switch to after my tires wear through. For the rear wheels, I would recommend 275 or larger.
To help make power better, you may want to consider an aluminum driveshaft which lowers rotation mass and overall vehicle weight. I also plan on dropping my chrome 20s for some TWS alloys in 18” or 19” which are substantially lighter. You can also get a steeda tubular radiator bracket for more weight savings. Making horsepower is nice but even a low horsepower car can be quick if it doesn’t weigh much. See this thread: http://www.mustangcollective.com/showthread.php?t=15915
Also, to keep the rear end firmly planted at higher speeds, I am planning to purchase the Steeda functional street wing which adds down force to your read tires at higher speeds.
Other options I haven’t mentioned which free up wheel horsepower are under drive pulleys which are common and good for a few ponies and using an electric water pump. The biggest gain can be had by getting better CNC heads from Blow by Blow Racing, Ford Racing, or having an experienced local shop port and polish your current heads.
Remember, building higher power at some point (or RPM) will require other supporting mods. 500RWHP is a great time to start thinking of a stronger clutch. Aggressive cams or trying to push over 6800rpms on FRPP Hot Rod cams will require new valve springs, and other lower internal upgrades so valves can move fast enough to keep up with cycles and new rods /pistons are necessary so you don’t bend/crack the weaker stock ones. (at 400 HP, you shouldn’t need to do this though). Also at 400 hp, the stock fuel delivery and ignition systems should be sufficient but new plugs as well as coil packs and injectors give you more flexibility and stronger spark, burning more of your fuel and producing ore efficiency and power. Another great trick for power is to either buy a new intake plenum for a few more ponies or buy the C&L intake plenum (or Steeda charge motion delete plates for all other plenums) which remove the throttlebody like valves located in each of your intake runners. This produces higher flow rates for the air and ultimately more power.
Parts that you may be tempted to buy but aren’t really worth it are throttle body spacers and for the most part throttle bodies. Spacers do not help us. Throttle bodies have minimal gains without using forced induction. I did, mostly for looks, buy a ported and polished throttle body for $75. Couldn’t beat the price and it flow tested at 13% more air flow, that is however not necessarily real world as it had a source pushing air through it.
I hope I got the important stuff. I have been writing this response for an hour and a half now. If you have more specific questions of how please ask. If I misstated anything, someone please correct it.
The key to piecing together the car is to think of your goal. Do you want 400 horsepower? Do you want a fast car? Do you want a ¼ mile car? Do you want a top speed car? From the sound of it, you want stop light performance, which is actually going to be mostly in the torque department. The older pushrod engines are capable of great amounts of torque in comparison to our over head cam setups but that by no means we can’t put out. The advantage of our overhead cam is that we rev faster and higher than our pushrod Mustang brethren.
You acknowledge you don’t know much about cars so I assume you don’t know what a power band is. This is the way the power is made in your car. Because we do not have electric motors, all of the power is not immediately available and the engine must build it over the rpm range (ie: powerband). Parts which make the car freer flowing, such as exhaust and intake parts, keep the ‘throw you back in your seat’ feeling in the car from hitting dead spots while flooring it.
Your car makes two types of power: horsepower and torque. Horsepower is generally accepted as the number that will get you to higher speeds as well as give you great pull in mid and top rpms & miles per hour. Torque on the other hand is what does the work to get your car moving and is represented greatly by acceleration or your ability to get to a certain lower speed faster. In most motors, especially non-charged, as one builds, the other fades (even if only slightly). Torque for us always peaks first then horsepower. Along the way, you will feel different levels of ‘pull’ from the car as you accelerate. Sometimes it will pull hard and sometimes not depending on rpms. This can be identified by a dynograph. (Quick aside, a dynojet or mustang dyno are machines designed to measure the amount of power/work an engine is doing. These can be attached directly to engines that are not in a car and measure fly wheel horsepower which is what manufacturers list in the specs. More commonly, we use roller dynos, which allow us to drive a cars drive wheels, rear in our case, over the rollers and strap it down to do runs. Dynojets produce higher numbers than do Mustang dynos because mustang dynos apply resistance to simulate real world friction.) These runs record how quickly the car can make those drums spin and produce a chart with two lines, horsepower and torque as a function of rpms.
Below I have linked to a picture of a stock 2006 Mustang GT:
As can be seen in the chart, this car made far short of the advertised 300 horsepower and 330ftlbs of torque (this was an automatic which I will explain later). Additionally, we can see that the light blue line, which is torque, fades substantially after 4,500 rpms. Horsepower continues to climb to 5,500 where it peaks and then begins to decline. Don’t worry, there are things we can do to fix this!
My concern with building my car is not to have a dyno queen that can hit a really high peak number but doesn’t reach it or maintain it well. The flatter these curves are, generally the better. Adding those freer flowing parts remove restrictions and allow you to flatten your curve which in reality means that your non-peak numbers are higher. If you can have a car that maxes at 350lbs of torque at a lower rpm and can keep you around those numbers all the way through the band, it will probably be worth more than a car hitting 375lbs of torque later or one that makes more but can’t maintain a flatter curve.
Here is a 2005 Mustang v6, automatic with a single axelback replacement and stage 2 ported heads:
As you can see not only were numbers raised but they are flatter meaning the car is making more power for a longer period of time.
Parts of these curves can be tuned to produce better results. On our stock cars, a tune can open up another ~15 rwhp just by changing the amount of fuel and air entering our engine. From the factory, no car is tuned perfectly for all out performance. Further, aftermarket cams, which use lobes on a shaft to actuate the valves in our heads (open and close them), are more aggressive which means they give more lift and advance timing which allows more air to get for combustion. They also advance the time which means there is less time between the opening and closing of the intake and exhaust valves. This is why with aftermarket cams like the FRPP Hot Rod cams you can see engine speeds of up to 6,800 rpms while stock we are a tick under 6,000.
Now a word about transmissions. There are two types for us; automatic or manual. Manuals are generally faster for two reasons. First, our T3650 weighs about 150lbs less than the 5R55S. Roughly, every 100lbs of weight can save you a tenth of a second in acceleration. Second, a manual transmission is more efficient at moving what your engine makes through its gears to the driveshaft. Automatics have extra moving parts like torque converters which use more fluid to operate and get hotter faster. This in turn causes the transmission to bleed power. A general rule of thumb is that our manuals lose ~9% while automatics lose ~15% of the power made at the engine. That’s why that automatic GT in the first chart made substantially less power than expected.
So all of this is great, we know that more air goes in to an engine that is freer flowing and the exhaust can get out faster with a freer flowing exhaust. So what actually makes the power? Combustion and compression. At the center of our ‘V’ shaped engines is a crankshaft with rods connected to pistons. These pistons move up and down in our cylinders. This up and down movement causes the crankshaft to turn which is connected to a flywheel and clutch which is the mating point between your engine and transmission. In short, the crankshaft spinning is what makes your driveshaft spin and finally your wheels. In order to make that piston move, the engine introduces oxygen (air) and fuel (through the injectors). The piston in motion, either from a previous motion of another cylinder firing or the starter, moves upward and compresses the mixture, pressurizing it to a point right before it will spontaneously combust (cylinders firing under compression without the introduction of a spark in gasoline engines is called detonation or knock and is bad). In our cars it is 9.8:1 compression. With the piston fully extended upward, the coil on plugs (COPs) fire a spark and ignite the mixture. As it burns, the byproduct is a gas, which rapidly expands, forcing the piston downward. This of course turns the crankshaft. Obviously, doing this in rapid succession gives us continues revolutions of the shaft. The fast we make I spin, the fast we go. While tuning, to crank out a few extra ponies, you can use premium fuel or anything between 91-93 octane. This octane rating allows the mixture to endure greater pressures before detonating, which allows tuners to advance the timing even more to get as much potential energy in to the cylinder before firing. Higher flow fuel injectors will help feed your car the fuel it needs as you start increasing the amount of power in it. Likewise, higher output COPs and sparkplugs ensure that the spark is stronger and lasts longer to ensure as full a burning of the fuel as possible, again producing more power through efficiency.
My goal for my own GT is 400hp. Now there is a difference between 400 flywheel horsepower and 400Rear Wheel Horsepower (RWHP). Because power doesn’t matter unless you can make it at the wheels and put it on the street.
Here is my plan to get there:
WMS High Velocity Intake (with ported and polished throttlebody for an extra pony or two)
Dynotune
Mac long tube headers, high flow cats, prochamber, and boomtube resonators (no mufflers)
39# Ford fuel injectors
Ford Racing Hot Rod cams
GMS Hot-Street Coil Packs
I don’t know where that will put me until I do all of it and get it dyno’ed but I am guessing I will be around 400 flywheel or more.
I have 295 Toyo Proxes 4’s on my car but I want something softer. A lot of guys on here use the Nitto’s and that is what I plan to switch to after my tires wear through. For the rear wheels, I would recommend 275 or larger.
To help make power better, you may want to consider an aluminum driveshaft which lowers rotation mass and overall vehicle weight. I also plan on dropping my chrome 20s for some TWS alloys in 18” or 19” which are substantially lighter. You can also get a steeda tubular radiator bracket for more weight savings. Making horsepower is nice but even a low horsepower car can be quick if it doesn’t weigh much. See this thread: http://www.mustangcollective.com/showthread.php?t=15915
Also, to keep the rear end firmly planted at higher speeds, I am planning to purchase the Steeda functional street wing which adds down force to your read tires at higher speeds.
Other options I haven’t mentioned which free up wheel horsepower are under drive pulleys which are common and good for a few ponies and using an electric water pump. The biggest gain can be had by getting better CNC heads from Blow by Blow Racing, Ford Racing, or having an experienced local shop port and polish your current heads.
Remember, building higher power at some point (or RPM) will require other supporting mods. 500RWHP is a great time to start thinking of a stronger clutch. Aggressive cams or trying to push over 6800rpms on FRPP Hot Rod cams will require new valve springs, and other lower internal upgrades so valves can move fast enough to keep up with cycles and new rods /pistons are necessary so you don’t bend/crack the weaker stock ones. (at 400 HP, you shouldn’t need to do this though). Also at 400 hp, the stock fuel delivery and ignition systems should be sufficient but new plugs as well as coil packs and injectors give you more flexibility and stronger spark, burning more of your fuel and producing ore efficiency and power. Another great trick for power is to either buy a new intake plenum for a few more ponies or buy the C&L intake plenum (or Steeda charge motion delete plates for all other plenums) which remove the throttlebody like valves located in each of your intake runners. This produces higher flow rates for the air and ultimately more power.
Parts that you may be tempted to buy but aren’t really worth it are throttle body spacers and for the most part throttle bodies. Spacers do not help us. Throttle bodies have minimal gains without using forced induction. I did, mostly for looks, buy a ported and polished throttle body for $75. Couldn’t beat the price and it flow tested at 13% more air flow, that is however not necessarily real world as it had a source pushing air through it.
I hope I got the important stuff. I have been writing this response for an hour and a half now. If you have more specific questions of how please ask. If I misstated anything, someone please correct it.
Last edited by JCON; 02-09-2012 at 07:38 PM.
02-09-2012, 08:56 PM
#4
1st Gear Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: CA
Posts: 79
+1 JCON. Excellent response post.
My local Mustang Club goes to the dragstrip about once a year. I go usually go about twelve times yearly. The guys/gals with the 550-700 RWHP Shelby GT500s and Super Snakes have a hard time launching and hooking up. My car has 450 RWHP and I beat almost everyone in the club, because of experience. Bragging rights are simply that, bragging rights.
My local Mustang Club goes to the dragstrip about once a year. I go usually go about twelve times yearly. The guys/gals with the 550-700 RWHP Shelby GT500s and Super Snakes have a hard time launching and hooking up. My car has 450 RWHP and I beat almost everyone in the club, because of experience. Bragging rights are simply that, bragging rights.
02-10-2012, 03:55 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: washington
Posts: 15
that was a great post
thanks a lot i feal like i learned a ton you put a lot of information into it and i appreciate it.
right now im thinking about doing cams, headers,x frame, and cold air intake and then tuning it. thats the start. in the future though you gave me a lot of great ideas of how to increase the hp in other places like lowering the weight and then messing with other stuff.
right now im thinking about doing cams, headers,x frame, and cold air intake and then tuning it. thats the start. in the future though you gave me a lot of great ideas of how to increase the hp in other places like lowering the weight and then messing with other stuff.
