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Rotating assembly

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Old 05-28-2012, 10:18 PM   #1
RASELHARF
 
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Default Rotating assembly

Hi, have a 2005 mustang GT thinking of adding a supercharger, trying to get around 550-600 rwhp, heard need to do some internal work,
will a rotating assembly do the job without boring the engine or need to overhaul the engine?

Thank you for any positive input
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Old 05-28-2012, 10:51 PM   #2
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the safest, most reliable thing to do is to either get fully forged internals or buy an aluminator block
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:01 PM   #3
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Adding a rotating assembly is overhauling the engine. You may be able to get away with not boring the block, it depends on how many miles are on the current engine but with the miles on a 2005 you most likely will need to bore the block.

You will need to buy the rotating assembly, buy rings, bearings, gaskets, oil pump with billet gears, ARP head and main studs, pay someone to do the machine work, pay someone to assemble the shortblock, pay someone to pull the old motor, pay someone to have the heads checked out and replace anything needed, pay someone to put the new engine fully together and install it.

Then you will need to get it tuned for whatever FI you are going to use to achieve 550-600 hp. All together you're talking about $7000-$8000, not counting what your FI costs.


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Old 05-28-2012, 11:03 PM   #4
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yes! deffinitly upgrade to forged internals if you don't already have them. if your motor didn't come with a supercharger then its not built for it. upgrading to a forged rotating assembly will increase your motors strenght to handle that boost. yea you could get away with your stock rotating assembly with a supercharger but your pistion rings won't handle it causing bad ring blow by pushing oil threw your PVC into your intake and causeing a lot of extra wear on your motor. stroking it wouldn't be a bad idea eather and deffinitly lower your compression ratio for boost. or at very least upgrade your pistion rings
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:09 PM   #5
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hopfully your mechically inclined to do this work yourself or the cost is going to be rediculous
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:40 AM   #6
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Look into the B302 from Brenspeed. From the research I've done, it's one of the best kits out there as far as complete-ness and what not. Either that or buy a full aluminator block.
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:37 AM   #7
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Thank you all for the quick response, have 46K miles on it, it's a Roush stage one convertible, looked at B302 from Brenspeed and I like it, I live in Tampa Fl and I'm not mechanically inclined, anybody knows a good shop down here to get an honest estimate,
called a machine shop E L T and he quote me around $10000 to overhaul the engine including boring it (that's a lot), thx in advance
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:17 PM   #8
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A shortblock like the B302 is definitely the way to go when comparing it to farming out work for rebuilding your stock motor. And, you'll have the added benefit of driving it longer and having a spare motor to sell or hold on to.

FWIW, Brenspeed recommends the stock head gaskets and TTY bolts on their B302, and they claim it's capable of supporting 800-900hp. I'm at close to (if not at) 500whp using the stock oil pump, gaskets, and bolts, and no issues so far. Have about 6000 miles on the engine.
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Old 05-29-2012, 04:05 PM   #9
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I have a 2007 427R. Roush installs the M90 on the stock engine that boosts power from 315 to 440. My CAI install with slightly smaller pulley added about 25 additional ponies for a total of 460 flywheel horsepower. Most engineers state that the 4.6L engine can take up to 475 RWHP on stock internals reliably, however anything over this creates extreme stress on the stock powdered metal connecting rods. The pistons are slightly stronger but detonation can shatter them. The power range that you are looking at will require a new short block assembly. Check VMP, as they are in Florida and can offer suggestions and a good, safe tune.
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Old 05-29-2012, 05:29 PM   #10
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Even if you intent to go to higher powers on the stock block, do not do so until you're ready to replace the block. Some get away with 400+rwhp for years, while others, like myself, blow their engine on 435 crank horsepower. It all comes down to the tune, how you use it, and a little bit of luck .
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:42 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siggyfreud View Post
Even if you intent to go to higher powers on the stock block, do not do so until you're ready to replace the block. Some get away with 400+rwhp for years, while others, like myself, blow their engine on 435 crank horsepower. It all comes down to the tune, how you use it, and a little bit of luck .
I don't think we can count your blown motor. No telling what the previous owner did to it. Also the stock saleen tune was known to be super lean.

I would not raise the rev limiter on these motors. Like you said, it may have been over-rev'd, either from downshifting from too high of speed or changing the limiter. Whipple doesn't change the rev limiter in their tunes, i assume for good reason.

I see a lot of people blowing motors from high speed runs, which I would never do in a car.
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Old 05-29-2012, 08:37 PM   #12
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I agree that the previous owner had a lot to do with why it blown. But that's really my point. There is only so much insurance you can implement via conservative power levels and tune. Part of it always comes down to the driver, and a small extent, to luck. I personally wouldn't push 475 rwhp on the stock block unless I could afford to replace said block should the worst happen. At those power levels, it's very easy to hit the rev limiter, especially for an inexperienced driver.

The stock saleen tune was very aggressive, showing 13:1 afr well into boost.

In any event, the power levels the OP wants to hit are probably beyond what anyone is running on their stock block, and I think you've said as much.
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Old 05-29-2012, 10:24 PM   #13
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I'm a newbie to this forum(or any forum) and I'm overwhelmed with all of you guys who responded so quickly, I think I'll go with the B302 short block(302 cdi) for around $3900 for the time being till I save some money for the FI, any tips on tranny work?
Thank you all again
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:17 AM   #14
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Upgrade the clutch to start. I'm at around 500whp and the stock 5 speed seems to be holding up fine. That said, I don't really run it too hard for the most part.
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:51 AM   #15
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I called Brenspeed and they said they dont make B302 anymore, they are coming out with a 326 CID ( hope I got the displacement right and it's cast iron) in a month or so,
does anyone know what the cost is for installing the short block and how many hours will take to do so?
Thx
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RASELHARF View Post
I called Brenspeed and they said they dont make B302 anymore, they are coming out with a 326 CID ( hope I got the displacement right and it's cast iron) in a month or so,
does anyone know what the cost is for installing the short block and how many hours will take to do so?
Thx
Bummer. I know at least the one I have was built from leftover Saleen 302 rotating kits, so perhaps they had a stockpile of those and simply ran out. I'll have to see if I can get any more information on why they quit.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:01 PM   #17
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http://www.s197forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84304
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:52 PM   #18
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Onederful, that link doesn't seem to work unless you're a member.

I emailed Chandler. He said they still make it, but Ford has stopped selling the 3v aluminum block they were using, so they'd need customer cores to do the B302 still.
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Old 05-30-2012, 01:36 PM   #19
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its a link to a JDM 302 stroker short block
they have a sale on it for $3500 for the 1st 10 people to order it.
same as on their website. probly need to contact them on phone or PM for the special price.
reg price for it is around $5k.
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Old 05-30-2012, 03:57 PM   #20
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I guess now is the time to buy em' if you can find em'
It appears that Ford (Aluminator), Brenspeed and other companies are moving away from the 4.6L platform.
Sean Hyland Motorsports offers an excellent quality built motor but its at the upper end of the price spectrum.
If and when my motor goes maybe the 5.0 Coyote will be an easy swap and install.
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Old 05-30-2012, 03:57 PM
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